Suicide and self harm!

I think it's unfair to say someone doesn't have enough expericance in the matter, you don't know their life story, who are you to say?

paradoxical:

sorry, more than one member of my family has at least tried to commit suicide. i dont know what im talking about at all. my bad.

Nine_Inch_Nails:

I don't think anyone ever has enough experience.

NeoSteph:

I think it's unfair to say someone doesn't have enough expericance in the matter, you don't know their life story, who are you to say?

I don't think anyone does. How can anyone determine what IS right and wrong, who should die or not. Unless you've actually successfully commited suicide then I don't think you have the experience. And even then maybe they don't because they'll never know "what if"

the only people with enough experience are those souls in hell or heaven that have commited suicide and discussed it formally with others who have done the same. i dont know if that could happen or not but hey...

NeoSteph:

Faith:

paradoxical:

Faith:

poison_fish:

NeoSteph:

poison_fish:

but then there are the people who have no respect for life and whats the point in living if you're not going to embrace and enjoy it kind of thing you know.
and the thing is, if they've lost all hope then they're not oing to try and solve their problem(s) and cant see hope for a better life and without hope or belief that it could happen nothings gunna change unless others help or force it on you.

People who are suicidal don't live in complete misery, every single person on the world has that tiny flicker of enjoyment every so often, some more than others.

But people who become suicidal have a complex where they can only see the bad. So i take my comment back, I think EVERYONE has that tiny piece of hope inside of them and it's only a hand grasp away, they just have to reach that little bit furthr than everyone else.

yes but there are people who are suicidal [im not saying EVERY suicidal person] and although, yes, in everyones life there is definitely hope for a better one, but some are so pessimistic and dont realise this so figure life can only get worse. and so im saying even though there is hope, there are people who dont see it or wont do anything to get there.

Seriously, if you really think there is ALWAYS hope...you're in denial.

And suicidalness is not based on problems, bad life situation, pessimism or even the famous no-other-way-out thing. It's none of that or all of that, it's always different beccause we are all different. Sometimes it's just being fed up. You don't owe anybody, if you don't want to live anymore - you don't.

as humans, without hope, we have nothing. its not denial or naivete. its truth. no matter what, there will always be hope. its an ability to see something good through all the bad. and THAT is not denial.

LoL, sure! I hope my leg will grow back, I hope my daughter will come back from the dead...I'm not in denial, NOoooo...

that would be denial, but people don't think like that, many people put in the position of losing a loved one, pray for hope for a better tommorow or hope they can overcome their dissability.

your labeling hope as something spiritual or supernatural. HOPE is a basic human need, it's everywhere in everything, if people choose to ignore then they have lost apart of themself because they are choosing not to believe in something that is good and wonderful.

Listen, I'm not labelling anything, but you seem to be in love with this word. All I'm saying is that you can't say there is always hope. We all have a limited perception in certain matters. And if you think there is always hope - you simply haven't seen what a really messed up life looks like. I used those examples to show you that hope doesn't always exist. Hope is important, it's the only fucking thing that keeps me alive, and is the only reason why I haven't killed myself yet. And, I know - when I lose it, I'm dead. But, unfortunately, I've seen enough to know there is not always hope. And to think that it's always there is a sweet denial that I've lost to the reality of life. They say ignorance is bliss. I guess, that's just one of those cases.

poison_fish:

the only people with enough experience are those souls in hell or heaven that have commited suicide and discussed it formally with others who have done the same. i dont know if that could happen or not but hey...

Doesn't that prove what I said is right?

Faith:

poison_fish:

the only people with enough experience are those souls in hell or heaven that have commited suicide and discussed it formally with others who have done the same. i dont know if that could happen or not but hey...

Doesn't that prove what I said is right?

And me...
But we can't say we're right. Not really. There is only guessing. You can't just say "I'm right!" But yeah..I see where you're coming from.

Wow. Maybe everyone should die so people can stop debating O_O But thats what this for anyway. XD

Sheepo@_@:

Wow. Maybe everyone should die so people can stop debating O_O But thats what this for anyway. XD

Because debating is fun fun fun in the sun sun sun

Faith:

NeoSteph:

Faith:

paradoxical:

Faith:

poison_fish:

NeoSteph:

poison_fish:

but then there are the people who have no respect for life and whats the point in living if you're not going to embrace and enjoy it kind of thing you know.
and the thing is, if they've lost all hope then they're not oing to try and solve their problem(s) and cant see hope for a better life and without hope or belief that it could happen nothings gunna change unless others help or force it on you.

People who are suicidal don't live in complete misery, every single person on the world has that tiny flicker of enjoyment every so often, some more than others.

But people who become suicidal have a complex where they can only see the bad. So i take my comment back, I think EVERYONE has that tiny piece of hope inside of them and it's only a hand grasp away, they just have to reach that little bit furthr than everyone else.

yes but there are people who are suicidal [im not saying EVERY suicidal person] and although, yes, in everyones life there is definitely hope for a better one, but some are so pessimistic and dont realise this so figure life can only get worse. and so im saying even though there is hope, there are people who dont see it or wont do anything to get there.

Seriously, if you really think there is ALWAYS hope...you're in denial.

And suicidalness is not based on problems, bad life situation, pessimism or even the famous no-other-way-out thing. It's none of that or all of that, it's always different beccause we are all different. Sometimes it's just being fed up. You don't owe anybody, if you don't want to live anymore - you don't.

as humans, without hope, we have nothing. its not denial or naivete. its truth. no matter what, there will always be hope. its an ability to see something good through all the bad. and THAT is not denial.

LoL, sure! I hope my leg will grow back, I hope my daughter will come back from the dead...I'm not in denial, NOoooo...

that would be denial, but people don't think like that, many people put in the position of losing a loved one, pray for hope for a better tommorow or hope they can overcome their dissability.

your labeling hope as something spiritual or supernatural. HOPE is a basic human need, it's everywhere in everything, if people choose to ignore then they have lost apart of themself because they are choosing not to believe in something that is good and wonderful.

Listen, I'm not labelling anything, but you seem to be in love with this word. All I'm saying is that you can't say there is always hope. We all have a limited perception in certain matters. And if you think there is always hope - you simply haven't seen what a really messed up life looks like. I used those examples to show you that hope doesn't always exist. Hope is important, it's the only fucking thing that keeps me alive, and is the only reason why I haven't killed myself yet. And, I know - when I lose it, I'm dead. But, unfortunately, I've seen enough to know there is not always hope. And to think that it's always there is a sweet denial that I've lost to the reality of life. They say ignorance is bliss. I guess, that's just one of those cases.

I Haven't seen what messed up life looks like, i might in a society that is deemed respectful.

But when i found a student from my school with slit wrists in a toilet, gotta say for life was pretty messed up then.

Or when i had to muck up the shit left in the bed of my friend whilst he was trying to get off herion, at the same time hearing him call me every possible name under the sun from the other room, yep had to say life pretty much wasn't a bed of roses. Then having to sit through his funeral with my best friend (his brother) sobbing in my arms.

or maybe when my now deceased uncle liver burst in his last week of living and i had to comfort my now deterioting aunt before helping clear up the blood that had splatered the room, can't say that was fun.

You know nothing of hell.

Faith:

poison_fish:

the only people with enough experience are those souls in hell or heaven that have commited suicide and discussed it formally with others who have done the same. i dont know if that could happen or not but hey...

Doesn't that prove what I said is right?

right in the way that no one can have enough experience to know EXCATLY what happens and why etc, but people can still have enough experience to generally know around about what happens and why. if that makes sense...

Faith:

paradoxical:

Faith:

NeoSteph:

Faith:

NeoSteph:

poison_fish:

but then there are the people who have no respect for life and whats the point in living if you're not going to embrace and enjoy it kind of thing you know.
and the thing is, if they've lost all hope then they're not oing to try and solve their problem(s) and cant see hope for a better life and without hope or belief that it could happen nothings gunna change unless others help or force it on you.

People who are suicidal don't live in complete misery, every single person on the world has that tiny flicker of enjoyment every so often, some more than others.

But people who become suicidal have a complex where they can only see the bad. So i take my comment back, I think EVERYONE has that tiny piece of hope inside of them and it's only a hand grasp away, they just have to reach that little bit furthr than everyone else.

Don't mean to get in a fight or anything, but I really think you're generalizing a little too much. People kill themselves for different reasons, so you can't just say that's exactly how it always happens. There are people who simply choose to die rather then go through agony from the hopeless case of cancer, or something of that kind. You know, there are way too many different cases of suicide to just sum it up like that in 3 lines. If you don't know what I'm talking about, read the previous 50 pages of this thread. We've all come up with some good stuff there.

i'm not generalising that all suicide cases are the same, i just believe that every person has a tiny piece of happiness, hell looking up at the sky and seeing that it's sunny can make a person happy. Yes people kill themselves for different reason but there is always one common factor and that is they just find anything worthwhile to stick around for.

Maybe the problem is that people look to deep into suicide, by over anylising you can sometimes miss the problem completely, sometimes it's easier just to take a step back and say ''right your sad, let's go get some ice cream'' (not that i belive that would work) but it's a nice thought.

I wish my life was so good that I could get happy from an ice-cream. Yeah, I get all excited about chicken chilli and that kind of shit. But when you're done being happy over it, you are still in hell.

but those are the moments to hang on to.
as long as there is food, music, and art in the world, as long as nature lives on, there is beauty and a reason to live. aka hope.

Honestly, I dream of the time when I'll be able to enjoy beauty and all that stuff. But, trust me, when you're in deep shit, you are unable to appreciate the simple joys of life. You simply can't. If you don't know what I mean - you're lucky. And I hope you will always stay that way

the way you say that, it sounds like youre suggesting that i dont have problems, that im not screwed up, and that i dont feel pain. i DO know what thats like. everyone knows how it feels to be depressed or numb. everyone knows what it is to lose track of the things they enjoy because they hurt. thats normal.
you hope i dont understand. i understand and i have hope, which is where the difference lies. i see the beauty in the world because im not afraid to feel the pain that might go with it. im happy because i know what sad really feels like.

NeoSteph:

Faith:

NeoSteph:

Faith:

paradoxical:

Faith:

poison_fish:

NeoSteph:

poison_fish:

but then there are the people who have no respect for life and whats the point in living if you're not going to embrace and enjoy it kind of thing you know.
and the thing is, if they've lost all hope then they're not oing to try and solve their problem(s) and cant see hope for a better life and without hope or belief that it could happen nothings gunna change unless others help or force it on you.

People who are suicidal don't live in complete misery, every single person on the world has that tiny flicker of enjoyment every so often, some more than others.

But people who become suicidal have a complex where they can only see the bad. So i take my comment back, I think EVERYONE has that tiny piece of hope inside of them and it's only a hand grasp away, they just have to reach that little bit furthr than everyone else.

yes but there are people who are suicidal [im not saying EVERY suicidal person] and although, yes, in everyones life there is definitely hope for a better one, but some are so pessimistic and dont realise this so figure life can only get worse. and so im saying even though there is hope, there are people who dont see it or wont do anything to get there.

Seriously, if you really think there is ALWAYS hope...you're in denial.

And suicidalness is not based on problems, bad life situation, pessimism or even the famous no-other-way-out thing. It's none of that or all of that, it's always different beccause we are all different. Sometimes it's just being fed up. You don't owe anybody, if you don't want to live anymore - you don't.

as humans, without hope, we have nothing. its not denial or naivete. its truth. no matter what, there will always be hope. its an ability to see something good through all the bad. and THAT is not denial.

LoL, sure! I hope my leg will grow back, I hope my daughter will come back from the dead...I'm not in denial, NOoooo...

that would be denial, but people don't think like that, many people put in the position of losing a loved one, pray for hope for a better tommorow or hope they can overcome their dissability.

your labeling hope as something spiritual or supernatural. HOPE is a basic human need, it's everywhere in everything, if people choose to ignore then they have lost apart of themself because they are choosing not to believe in something that is good and wonderful.

Listen, I'm not labelling anything, but you seem to be in love with this word. All I'm saying is that you can't say there is always hope. We all have a limited perception in certain matters. And if you think there is always hope - you simply haven't seen what a really messed up life looks like. I used those examples to show you that hope doesn't always exist. Hope is important, it's the only fucking thing that keeps me alive, and is the only reason why I haven't killed myself yet. And, I know - when I lose it, I'm dead. But, unfortunately, I've seen enough to know there is not always hope. And to think that it's always there is a sweet denial that I've lost to the reality of life. They say ignorance is bliss. I guess, that's just one of those cases.

I Haven't seen what messed up life looks like, i might in a society that is deemed respectful.

But when i found a student from my school with slit wrists in a toilet, gotta say for life was pretty messed up then.

Or when i had to muck up the shit left in the bed of my friend whilst he was trying to get off herion, at the same time hearing him call me every possible name under the sun from the other room, yep had to say life pretty much wasn't a bed of roses. Then having to sit through his funeral with my best friend (his brother) sobbing in my arms.

or maybe when my now deceased uncle liver burst in his last week of living and i had to comfort my now deterioting aunt before helping clear up the blood that had splatered the room, can't say that was fun.

You know nothing of hell.

And neither do you.
Hey maybe the Bible got messed up, and heaven is actually hell, and hell is actually heaven?
Good job I believe in Side then.

Nine_Inch_Nails:

Faith:

poison_fish:

the only people with enough experience are those souls in hell or heaven that have commited suicide and discussed it formally with others who have done the same. i dont know if that could happen or not but hey...

Doesn't that prove what I said is right?

And me...
But we can't say we're right. Not really. There is only guessing. You can't just say "I'm right!" But yeah..I see where you're coming from.

All I'm saying is that whatever I say about reasons of suicide, whatever anyone else will say, will always only be a part.

Nine_Inch_Nails:

NeoSteph:

Faith:

NeoSteph:

Faith:

paradoxical:

Faith:

poison_fish:

NeoSteph:

poison_fish:

but then there are the people who have no respect for life and whats the point in living if you're not going to embrace and enjoy it kind of thing you know.
and the thing is, if they've lost all hope then they're not oing to try and solve their problem(s) and cant see hope for a better life and without hope or belief that it could happen nothings gunna change unless others help or force it on you.

People who are suicidal don't live in complete misery, every single person on the world has that tiny flicker of enjoyment every so often, some more than others.

But people who become suicidal have a complex where they can only see the bad. So i take my comment back, I think EVERYONE has that tiny piece of hope inside of them and it's only a hand grasp away, they just have to reach that little bit furthr than everyone else.

yes but there are people who are suicidal [im not saying EVERY suicidal person] and although, yes, in everyones life there is definitely hope for a better one, but some are so pessimistic and dont realise this so figure life can only get worse. and so im saying even though there is hope, there are people who dont see it or wont do anything to get there.

Seriously, if you really think there is ALWAYS hope...you're in denial.

And suicidalness is not based on problems, bad life situation, pessimism or even the famous no-other-way-out thing. It's none of that or all of that, it's always different beccause we are all different. Sometimes it's just being fed up. You don't owe anybody, if you don't want to live anymore - you don't.

as humans, without hope, we have nothing. its not denial or naivete. its truth. no matter what, there will always be hope. its an ability to see something good through all the bad. and THAT is not denial.

LoL, sure! I hope my leg will grow back, I hope my daughter will come back from the dead...I'm not in denial, NOoooo...

that would be denial, but people don't think like that, many people put in the position of losing a loved one, pray for hope for a better tommorow or hope they can overcome their dissability.

your labeling hope as something spiritual or supernatural. HOPE is a basic human need, it's everywhere in everything, if people choose to ignore then they have lost apart of themself because they are choosing not to believe in something that is good and wonderful.

Listen, I'm not labelling anything, but you seem to be in love with this word. All I'm saying is that you can't say there is always hope. We all have a limited perception in certain matters. And if you think there is always hope - you simply haven't seen what a really messed up life looks like. I used those examples to show you that hope doesn't always exist. Hope is important, it's the only fucking thing that keeps me alive, and is the only reason why I haven't killed myself yet. And, I know - when I lose it, I'm dead. But, unfortunately, I've seen enough to know there is not always hope. And to think that it's always there is a sweet denial that I've lost to the reality of life. They say ignorance is bliss. I guess, that's just one of those cases.

I Haven't seen what messed up life looks like, i might in a society that is deemed respectful.

But when i found a student from my school with slit wrists in a toilet, gotta say for life was pretty messed up then.

Or when i had to muck up the shit left in the bed of my friend whilst he was trying to get off herion, at the same time hearing him call me every possible name under the sun from the other room, yep had to say life pretty much wasn't a bed of roses. Then having to sit through his funeral with my best friend (his brother) sobbing in my arms.

or maybe when my now deceased uncle liver burst in his last week of living and i had to comfort my now deterioting aunt before helping clear up the blood that had splatered the room, can't say that was fun.

You know nothing of hell.

And neither do you.
Hey maybe the Bible got messed up, and heaven is actually hell, and hell is actually heaven?
Good job I believe in Side then.

I know i don't live in hell, and i hope i never have to find out what it's like, i'm merely pointing out that Faith doesn't know either.

Nine_Inch_Nails:

And neither do you.
Hey maybe the Bible got messed up, and heaven is actually hell, and hell is actually heaven?
Good job I believe in Side then.

Oh what a bunch of nonsense. Maybe you got it messed up.

NeoSteph:

Faith:

NeoSteph:

Faith:

paradoxical:

Faith:

poison_fish:

NeoSteph:

poison_fish:

but then there are the people who have no respect for life and whats the point in living if you're not going to embrace and enjoy it kind of thing you know.
and the thing is, if they've lost all hope then they're not oing to try and solve their problem(s) and cant see hope for a better life and without hope or belief that it could happen nothings gunna change unless others help or force it on you.

People who are suicidal don't live in complete misery, every single person on the world has that tiny flicker of enjoyment every so often, some more than others.

But people who become suicidal have a complex where they can only see the bad. So i take my comment back, I think EVERYONE has that tiny piece of hope inside of them and it's only a hand grasp away, they just have to reach that little bit furthr than everyone else.

yes but there are people who are suicidal [im not saying EVERY suicidal person] and although, yes, in everyones life there is definitely hope for a better one, but some are so pessimistic and dont realise this so figure life can only get worse. and so im saying even though there is hope, there are people who dont see it or wont do anything to get there.

Seriously, if you really think there is ALWAYS hope...you're in denial.

And suicidalness is not based on problems, bad life situation, pessimism or even the famous no-other-way-out thing. It's none of that or all of that, it's always different beccause we are all different. Sometimes it's just being fed up. You don't owe anybody, if you don't want to live anymore - you don't.

as humans, without hope, we have nothing. its not denial or naivete. its truth. no matter what, there will always be hope. its an ability to see something good through all the bad. and THAT is not denial.

LoL, sure! I hope my leg will grow back, I hope my daughter will come back from the dead...I'm not in denial, NOoooo...

that would be denial, but people don't think like that, many people put in the position of losing a loved one, pray for hope for a better tommorow or hope they can overcome their dissability.

your labeling hope as something spiritual or supernatural. HOPE is a basic human need, it's everywhere in everything, if people choose to ignore then they have lost apart of themself because they are choosing not to believe in something that is good and wonderful.

Listen, I'm not labelling anything, but you seem to be in love with this word. All I'm saying is that you can't say there is always hope. We all have a limited perception in certain matters. And if you think there is always hope - you simply haven't seen what a really messed up life looks like. I used those examples to show you that hope doesn't always exist. Hope is important, it's the only fucking thing that keeps me alive, and is the only reason why I haven't killed myself yet. And, I know - when I lose it, I'm dead. But, unfortunately, I've seen enough to know there is not always hope. And to think that it's always there is a sweet denial that I've lost to the reality of life. They say ignorance is bliss. I guess, that's just one of those cases.

I Haven't seen what messed up life looks like, i might in a society that is deemed respectful.

But when i found a student from my school with slit wrists in a toilet, gotta say for life was pretty messed up then.

Or when i had to muck up the shit left in the bed of my friend whilst he was trying to get off herion, at the same time hearing him call me every possible name under the sun from the other room, yep had to say life pretty much wasn't a bed of roses. Then having to sit through his funeral with my best friend (his brother) sobbing in my arms.

or maybe when my now deceased uncle liver burst in his last week of living and i had to comfort my now deterioting aunt before helping clear up the blood that had splatered the room, can't say that was fun.

You know nothing of hell.

I know nothing of hell?

My dear, if you think what you've mentioned above is hell - then you know nothing about it either.

To every person hell is something unique. For someone losing their spouse is hell, for someone being in phisical pain is hell...Your hell might be nothing for someone else, and my hell might be bullshit for you. Because we are all different. And saying something like what you said above, I'm sorry, simply represents you as an angry closed-minded person. I hate to say things like that, but it's true, and sad.

Sheepo@_@:

Nine_Inch_Nails:

And neither do you.
Hey maybe the Bible got messed up, and heaven is actually hell, and hell is actually heaven?
Good job I believe in Side then.

Oh what a bunch of nonsense. Maybe you got it messed up.

I was saying what IF.
I don't believe in the Bible. I believe Christianity.
Don't you DARE tell me my beliefs are messed up okay, pagan times were there LONG before Christianity came along. People believed in Side etc etc. I didn't get it messed up, the ancient Catholic priests did. Sorry if I'm offending you, I don't mean to, but it's a subject I feel quite passionate about. How many people have died since Christianity came along, what with the Witch Trials and the Crusades etc. And how many Satanists/Wiccans/other pagan beliefs etc have died? Exactly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope

a bit late, but still. hope is a state of mind. without that state of mind one CAN have no hope.

poison_fish:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope

a bit late, but still. hope is a state of mind. without that state of mind one CAN have no hope.

There ya go...