The Pledge of Allegiance

I_worship_tre_Cool:

Handguns For Hearts:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

Handguns For Hearts:

I don't usually do the pledge.

The U.S. is one of the most hypocritical countrie's in the world. It's disgraceful.

If your going to make bold statements like that, be detailed or don't make them at all, how can we debate that? We can't.

I can give you an example.

Well, to be disgracfully hypocritical, we'd need more than one.... but yeah, an example please.

Japanese Internment camps. Do you want me to bump the thread?

Handguns For Hearts:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

Handguns For Hearts:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

Handguns For Hearts:

I don't usually do the pledge.

The U.S. is one of the most hypocritical countrie's in the world. It's disgraceful.

If your going to make bold statements like that, be detailed or don't make them at all, how can we debate that? We can't.

I can give you an example.

Well, to be disgracfully hypocritical, we'd need more than one.... but yeah, an example please.

Japanese Internment camps. Do you want me to bump the thread?

It's only bumping when you make a dumb post, if you have something valuable to add to the argument, you can always bring up a thread

I_worship_tre_Cool:

Handguns For Hearts:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

Handguns For Hearts:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

Handguns For Hearts:

I don't usually do the pledge.

The U.S. is one of the most hypocritical countrie's in the world. It's disgraceful.

If your going to make bold statements like that, be detailed or don't make them at all, how can we debate that? We can't.

I can give you an example.

Well, to be disgracfully hypocritical, we'd need more than one.... but yeah, an example please.

Japanese Internment camps. Do you want me to bump the thread?

It's only bumping when you make a dumb post, if you have something valuable to add to the argument, you can always bring up a thread

There.

spill_no_sick:

a lot of people just shouldn't say it because they feel no allegiance to their country

I agree.
But you can disagree with things the government does and still feel a great deal of allegiance to the country.
I don't say the Pledge of Allegiance because I disagree with the words "Under God" being in it, and even more that a friend of mine got in trouble for taking it out when he said it in school. But I stand, and I show some respect for the whole thing. Why? Because I'm still an American citizen, even when I'm pissed off about something. And we have done a few things we can be proud of.

i stand up and put my hand on over my heart but i don't say anything. personally i wouldn't stand up at all , thast my opinion , but i chose not to my homeroom teacher woul dflip out because 'it has to much meaning to her for us not to stand and pledge along'

Handguns For Hearts:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

Handguns For Hearts:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

Handguns For Hearts:

I don't usually do the pledge.

The U.S. is one of the most hypocritical countrie's in the world. It's disgraceful.

If your going to make bold statements like that, be detailed or don't make them at all, how can we debate that? We can't.

I can give you an example.

Well, to be disgracfully hypocritical, we'd need more than one.... but yeah, an example please.

Japanese Internment camps. Do you want me to bump the thread?

well, that was a while ago....but explain how it's hypocritcal

it was wrong, but I still don't see how you're complaining about, "the direction the US is heading in" and yet you use the Japanese internment camps as an example for anything

I_worship_tre_Cool:

spill_no_sick:

dirtyhippie:

C'mon, if nothing else, guys, IT SOUNDS BETTER WITHOUT "UNDER GOD!" Yes, that was caps abuse, but I needed that. I think it flows much better without those two little words...

some people want to say it, so, to keep everyone in sync, just say, "under [insert beliefe here]"
honestly, say, "under Ala", "under Buddah", "under Me", it's not that hard

why is this even an issue?

Also, if your only goal in saying the pledge is to make it sound good, chances are you need to just sit down and not say it at all.

Other peoples beliefes shouldnt be ignored so your schools pledge can sound all nice and tidy. Thats unfair to them.

Nick: This is another one of my rascally little argumants of principle. I know it's not that hard to omit the two words, but why should they be there? There is no reason for people to leave out parts due somebody else's religion.

And as for Worship, whose name I do not know, you officially are devoid of a sense of humor. I was kind of serious, I think it does sound better, but that's not any part of my actual argument. What kind of an idiot do you take me for, anyway?

dirtyhippie:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

spill_no_sick:

dirtyhippie:

C'mon, if nothing else, guys, IT SOUNDS BETTER WITHOUT "UNDER GOD!" Yes, that was caps abuse, but I needed that. I think it flows much better without those two little words...

some people want to say it, so, to keep everyone in sync, just say, "under [insert beliefe here]"
honestly, say, "under Ala", "under Buddah", "under Me", it's not that hard

why is this even an issue?

Also, if your only goal in saying the pledge is to make it sound good, chances are you need to just sit down and not say it at all.

Other peoples beliefes shouldnt be ignored so your schools pledge can sound all nice and tidy. Thats unfair to them.

Nick: This is another one of my rascally little argumants of principle. I know it's not that hard to omit the two words, but why should they be there? There is no reason for people to leave out parts due somebody else's religion.

And as for Worship, whose name I do not know, you officially are devoid of a sense of humor. I was kind of serious, I think it does sound better, but that's not any part of my actual argument. What kind of an idiot do you take me for, anyway?

it wasn't so much directed at you as it was to those who actually use that as a ligitamite arguement

dirtyhippie:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

spill_no_sick:

dirtyhippie:

C'mon, if nothing else, guys, IT SOUNDS BETTER WITHOUT "UNDER GOD!" Yes, that was caps abuse, but I needed that. I think it flows much better without those two little words...

some people want to say it, so, to keep everyone in sync, just say, "under [insert beliefe here]"
honestly, say, "under Ala", "under Buddah", "under Me", it's not that hard

why is this even an issue?

Also, if your only goal in saying the pledge is to make it sound good, chances are you need to just sit down and not say it at all.

Other peoples beliefes shouldnt be ignored so your schools pledge can sound all nice and tidy. Thats unfair to them.

Nick: This is another one of my rascally little argumants of principle. I know it's not that hard to omit the two words, but why should they be there? There is no reason for people to leave out parts due somebody else's religion.

And as for Worship, whose name I do not know, you officially are devoid of a sense of humor. I was kind of serious, I think it does sound better, but that's not any part of my actual argument. What kind of an idiot do you take me for, anyway?

they are there because that's what happened when the Pledge was made, I'm sorry it wasn't originally written in Mad Lib form (I seriously am) so that people could substitute it for anything.....

but then, what's your argument?
you agreed it's not hard to substitute.....so are you arguing we should alter time and never have those two words there anyway?
I don't even think we should do that, it makes a good guideline for those who want to substitute

(I think we're getting closer and closer to agreeing on something

spill_no_sick:

dirtyhippie:

I_worship_tre_Cool:

spill_no_sick:

dirtyhippie:

C'mon, if nothing else, guys, IT SOUNDS BETTER WITHOUT "UNDER GOD!" Yes, that was caps abuse, but I needed that. I think it flows much better without those two little words...

some people want to say it, so, to keep everyone in sync, just say, "under [insert beliefe here]"
honestly, say, "under Ala", "under Buddah", "under Me", it's not that hard

why is this even an issue?

Also, if your only goal in saying the pledge is to make it sound good, chances are you need to just sit down and not say it at all.

Other peoples beliefes shouldnt be ignored so your schools pledge can sound all nice and tidy. Thats unfair to them.

Nick: This is another one of my rascally little argumants of principle. I know it's not that hard to omit the two words, but why should they be there? There is no reason for people to leave out parts due somebody else's religion.

And as for Worship, whose name I do not know, you officially are devoid of a sense of humor. I was kind of serious, I think it does sound better, but that's not any part of my actual argument. What kind of an idiot do you take me for, anyway?

they are there because that's what happened when the Pledge was made, I'm sorry it wasn't originally written in Mad Lib form (I seriously am) so that people could substitute it for anything.....

but then, what's your argument?
you agreed it's not hard to substitute.....so are you arguing we should alter time and never have those two words there anyway?
I don't even think we should do that, it makes a good guideline for those who want to substitute

(I think we're getting closer and closer to agreeing on something

Wait...Nick and Sam agreeing on something?! I got me the heebie-jeebies...

Well, for the first thing, we've already established that those words weren't there when the Pledge was made. It ran "one nation, indivisible." Blah, blah.

But I did just figure out a compromise, in fact. I'm still after those words deleted...but at the very least, why don't we change it to read "under ___"? (That's what happens when you remind me of Mad Libs and say you like the words there as a template. I get weird ideas.) It's unconventional, but as long as everyone's needs are served here (the blank can be used for pretty much anything, obviously), I'm all right. I'd certainly rather it be changed back to its original state, but this would hold me for a bit. Thoughts? Anyone?

And who else has been saying that it would sound better without UG? That's a crappy-ass argument, but I haven't had the misfortune to hear it.

idk...i just think it's some pledge...no need to change it.

Mike's Demonic Daunter:

I think it's ridiculous that people are just noticing that as a part of the song, it makes them look stupid. i respect all religious beliefs and everything, but if you dont like it, you dont have to say it, you arent forced to.

Agreed. That was the original pledge, if you dont like it, than dont say it. Its that simple.

GuitarGirl93:

Mike's Demonic Daunter:

I think it's ridiculous that people are just noticing that as a part of the song, it makes them look stupid. i respect all religious beliefs and everything, but if you dont like it, you dont have to say it, you arent forced to.

Agreed. That was the original pledge, if you dont like it, than dont say it. Its that simple.

No it wasn't! I keep saying this, all through the thread--

Kitti:

Quote

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ] http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

Research is SUCH a beautiful thing. That literally took ten seconds.

yes, but when this counrty was founded, most of the people here were christian. it had a lot to do with the usa. remember how it says "in God we trust" on money? (and no, i'm not trying to shove religion down your throat, but it was important to them back then) now, that's different, but you can't change what is history. if you want to say the pledge, you can. but if you don't, fine, no one is making you(except some unfair teachers).

[QUOTE="katieAmerican uber-Christianity. A tradition? Quite so. But traditions have a bad history of being pretty silly in retrospect. Slavery was one. It does say "In God We Trust" on money, but it doesn't seem to keep inflation down...we just do it now because nobody really wants to remint the freakin' dollar. That takes mad money, and we in the USA like to spend money on, um, killing people. And most teachers that are not otherwise unfair do ,in fact, make you say the Pledge in its "entirety."

As for Daunter and GuitarGirl: Look, reading the entire thread is a wonderful, wooonnnderful thing. Look into it. GuitarGirl has already been shot down many times in numerous identities. And Daunter, I'm certainly forced to say it officially. (Also, it's not a song, and this debate isn't new. It's been going on for decades, but the dissenting points of view have only been recently legitimized.)

i dont say it just to stand up for people who think its wrong but are to shy to make it a point

I don't think I've ever posted in this thread, so I'm sorry if I have. I think they should just leave it alone. This country was founded on Christianity, and as much as it seems we're getting away from that these days, because of that I think "under God" belongs in the Pledge of Allegiance. If you don't believe in God or don't like Him being in it, just don't say it, it's that simple. Nobody's forcing anyone to say it. All I know is, if it ever gets taken out, that would be a sad day for me, but I would still stand and say it loud and proud.

i stand up and say everything but ''one nation under god'' i personally don't believe in God if others would like to say it, thats fine with me

i honestly wouldn't care if it were changed or not

Kitti:

GuitarGirl93:

Mike's Demonic Daunter:

I think it's ridiculous that people are just noticing that as a part of the song, it makes them look stupid. i respect all religious beliefs and everything, but if you dont like it, you dont have to say it, you arent forced to.

Agreed. That was the original pledge, if you dont like it, than dont say it. Its that simple.

No it wasn't! I keep saying this, all through the thread--

Kitti:

Quote

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ] http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

Research is SUCH a beautiful thing. That literally took ten seconds.

and once we go to the next page you will have to repeat it over again

A short little history...
http://www.flagday.org/Pages/StoryofPledge.html

The Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag of the United States, according to James A. Moss, an authority on the flag and its history, was first given national publicity through the official program of the National Public School Celebration of Columbus Day in October 1892. The Pledge had been published in theYouth's Companion for September 8,1892, and at the same time sent out in leaflet form throughout the country.During the Celebration it was repeated by more than 12,000,000 public school pupils in every state in the Union.
Mr. Francis Bellamy of Rome, New York, and Mr. James Upham of Malden, Massachusetts were both members of the staff of the Youth's Companion when the Pledge was published. The family of each man has contended that his was the authorship and both hold evidence to substantiate their claims.

To determine, in the interest of historical accuracy, the actual authorship, the United States Flag Association (formerly in Washington, D.C., but now disbanded), in 1939, appointed a committee consisting of Charles C. Tansill,Professor of American History; W. Reed West, Professor of Political Science; and Bernard Mayo, Professor of American History, to carefully weigh the evidence of the two contending families. Unanimously, the committee decided in favor of Francis Bellamy, and on May 18, 1939, the decision was accepted by the American Flag Committee. Mr. Bellamy had been chairman of the executive committee which formulated the program for the National Public School Celebration and furnished the publicity when he was on the staff of the Youth's Companion.

In the material which he nationally circulated, he wrote, “Let the flag float over every school-house in the land and the exercise be such as shall impress upon our youth the patriotic duty of citizenship.” He also included the original 23 words of the Pledge which he had developed. * 'to' added in October, 1892.

I pledge allegiance to my Flag,
and (to*) the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.


Thus it was that on Columbus Day in October 1892, the Pledge of Allegiance was repeated by more than 12 million public school children in every state in the union.

The wording of the Pledge has been modified three times.

On June 14, 1923, at the First National Flag Conference held in Washington, D.C., under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words. The latter words were added on the ground that some foreign-born children and adults when giving the Pledge might have in mind the flag of their native land.In 1923, the words “the flag of the United States” were substituted for “my flag.”

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.

In 1924, “of America” was added.

I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all.


On Flag Day June 14, 1954, the words “under God” were added

The last change in the Pledge of Allegiance occurred on June 14 (Flag Day), 1954 when President Dwight D. Eisenhower approved adding the words "under God". As he authorized this change he said: "In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource in peace and war."
This was the last change made to the Pledge of Allegiance. The 23 words what had been initially penned for a Columbus Day celebration now comprised a Thirty-one profession of loyalty and devotion to not only a flag, but to a way of life....the American ideal. Those words now read:

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.”

The Pledge of Allegiance continued to be recited daily by children in schools across America, and gained heightened popularity among adults during the patriotic fervor created by World War II. It still was an "unofficial" pledge until June 22, 1942 when the United States Congress included the Pledge to the Flag in the United States Flag Code (Title 36). In 1945 the Pledge to the Flag received its official title as: The Pledge of Allegiance




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When the Pledge is being given, all should stand with the right hand over the heart, fingers together and horizontal with the arm at as near a right angle as possible. After the words "justice to all," the arm should drop to the side. While giving the Pledge of Allegiance all should face the flag.

According to Colonel Moss, no disrespect is displayed by giving the Pledge with a gloved hand over the heart, but he calls our attention to the fact that an Army Officer or an enlisted man always removes his right glove upon taking his oath as a witness. The Daughters of the American Revolution follow the custom of having the right hand ungloved.

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The idea of the annual PAUSE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE originated in 1980 at the Star-Spangled Banner Flag House in Baltimore, Maryland. The National Flag Day Foundation. Inc. was created in 1982 “to conduct educational programs throughout the United States in promotion of National Flag Day and to encourage national patriotism by promotion of the PAUSE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGiANCE.”

On June 20, 1985, the Ninety-Ninth Congress passed and President Reagan signed Public Law 99-54 recognizing the PAUSE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE as part of National Flag Day activities. It is an invitation urging all Americans to participate on Flag Day, June 14, 7:00 p.m. (EDT) in reciting the Pledge of Allegiance.