Flag desecration

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Faith
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Faith
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December 15th, 2005 at 08:43pm
Robot:

Isn't it disrespecting the ones who want to burn the flag by making it illegal for them to do so?


Just like the law is desrespecting the ones who want to steal, kill and show their genitals to 5-year-olds in a supermarket.
ExtraodinaryGirl
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December 15th, 2005 at 08:44pm
Robot:
hobo with a box:
I'm not sure what desecration means...but I have an idea...

I think that you should be patriotic to your country and not burn the
flag. And be respectful and not burn any countries flag.
It's mainly out of respect.

Like you wouldn't burn a picture of George Bush would you?
Wrong question...pffh.

Here: I wouln't burn a picture of Bill Clinton but by no means
do I believe in what he has to say...

I wouldn't burn an Afghanistan[I know I'm spelling that wrong] flag,
even though...they do kinda hate us...

That's just how I think. I guess I'm very patriotic...yet I'm the girl
who won't say the pledge cause it says "Under God". I'm messed up...


Isn't it disrespecting the ones who want to burn the flag by making it illegal for them to do so?


No. It's disrespectfull to vandalize something people have died for. It would be disrespecting to say people can't express themselves PEACEFULLY, burning a flag and vandalism isn't peacefull.
ExtraodinaryGirl
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December 15th, 2005 at 08:48pm
[quote="Robot"]
Joe Robot:
ExtraodinaryGirl:
I also think it's extremely disrespectfull to veterens and to others who fought and died in wars. These people didn't fight for our country so some person who doesn't know how to VOICE his or her opinion could burn it.


Fighting is an appropriate way to voice your opinion about your country?


People in the Civil War weren't doing the right thing? People who were fighting Britian because the British government weren't doing the right thing?
Sometimes, you CAN'T solve things peacefully. When people died to get the freedoms that my countries flag represents, they were doing what they had to do to get the freedoms that they deserved and we deserve.
So, not usually, but sometimes, it's the only way you can get freedom.
ExtraodinaryGirl
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December 15th, 2005 at 08:49pm
fancy pants:
To those of you who say it's not patriotic: what's more patriotic than having the right to free speech and USING YOUR RIGHTS?


Nothing. Burning a flag isn't using your rights. It's vandalism.
well.durr__hXc™
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December 15th, 2005 at 10:54pm
[quote="ExtraodinaryGirl"]
Robot:
Joe Robot:
ExtraodinaryGirl:
I also think it's extremely disrespectfull to veterens and to others who fought and died in wars. These people didn't fight for our country so some person who doesn't know how to VOICE his or her opinion could burn it.


Fighting is an appropriate way to voice your opinion about your country?


People in the Civil War weren't doing the right thing? People who were fighting Britian because the British government weren't doing the right thing?
Sometimes, you CAN'T solve things peacefully. When people died to get the freedoms that my countries flag represents, they were doing what they had to do to get the freedoms that they deserved and we deserve.
So, not usually, but sometimes, it's the only way you can get freedom.


I never said that...and I never said that...or this...
THE QUOTE SYSTEM IS WRONG!!!!11
Snow White
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December 16th, 2005 at 06:47am
ExtraodinaryGirl:
Robot:
hobo with a box:
I'm not sure what desecration means...but I have an idea...

I think that you should be patriotic to your country and not burn the
flag. And be respectful and not burn any countries flag.
It's mainly out of respect.

Like you wouldn't burn a picture of George Bush would you?
Wrong question...pffh.

Here: I wouln't burn a picture of Bill Clinton but by no means
do I believe in what he has to say...

I wouldn't burn an Afghanistan[I know I'm spelling that wrong] flag,
even though...they do kinda hate us...

That's just how I think. I guess I'm very patriotic...yet I'm the girl
who won't say the pledge cause it says "Under God". I'm messed up...


Isn't it disrespecting the ones who want to burn the flag by making it illegal for them to do so?


No. It's disrespectfull to vandalize something people have died for. It would be disrespecting to say people can't express themselves PEACEFULLY, burning a flag and vandalism isn't peacefull.


Flag burning isn't vandalism and it is peaceful. By burning a flag you don't hurt people physically and you don't destroy other people's things either. I don't understand where you get the idea flag burning=vandalism from.
Nine_Inch_Nails
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December 16th, 2005 at 07:13am
Are we talking about your own flags here? Like, if you bought a flag for yourself and burnt it then it's not fucking vandalism is it?
Just like as if
Jackass
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December 16th, 2005 at 10:29am
Stuoiud piece of cloth. Burn burn. I don't think the veterans will roll in their graves if someone just burns a piece of cloth. Although it represents the country, it won't take away the independece if you just like to burn it once in a while. Yeah anyone should be able to burn it if they ever want to.
FUCK GSB
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December 16th, 2005 at 01:13pm
Nine_Inch_Nails:
Are we talking about your own flags here? Like, if you bought a flag for yourself and burnt it then it's not fucking vandalism is it?


I think they are meaning in general.
Idk...these kids are dumb....what we do is disrespecting htem....but what they do doesn't disrepsect us.
This is one of those topics that we could go off on for a month and still be where we were in the beginning.
They need to realize that MOST people who burn flags don't do it out of disrespect and that it's their peaceful way of protesting something.
It's meant to get people to open their eyes and ask you questions about why you do it....there are also some people who are intolerant and are like.....YOU HATE AMERICA FUCK YOU GO DIE, WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY DOESN'T MEAN SHIT!
ExtraodinaryGirl
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December 16th, 2005 at 02:38pm
Snow White:
ExtraodinaryGirl:
Robot:
hobo with a box:
I'm not sure what desecration means...but I have an idea...

I think that you should be patriotic to your country and not burn the
flag. And be respectful and not burn any countries flag.
It's mainly out of respect.

Like you wouldn't burn a picture of George Bush would you?
Wrong question...pffh.

Here: I wouln't burn a picture of Bill Clinton but by no means
do I believe in what he has to say...

I wouldn't burn an Afghanistan[I know I'm spelling that wrong] flag,
even though...they do kinda hate us...

That's just how I think. I guess I'm very patriotic...yet I'm the girl
who won't say the pledge cause it says "Under God". I'm messed up...


Isn't it disrespecting the ones who want to burn the flag by making it illegal for them to do so?


No. It's disrespectfull to vandalize something people have died for. It would be disrespecting to say people can't express themselves PEACEFULLY, burning a flag and vandalism isn't peacefull.


Flag burning isn't vandalism and it is peaceful. By burning a flag you don't hurt people physically and you don't destroy other people's things either. I don't understand where you get the idea flag burning=vandalism from.


van·dal·ism (vndl-zm)[not all the letters and symbols transfer
n.
1. Willful or malicious destruction of public or private property.

2. Any activity that is considered to be damaging or destroying something that was good.

Burning a meaningfull and symbolic piece of cloth is vandalism. Burning something isn't peacefull, especially if you are in a street or a room with anything flammable around you.
You destroy something that means A LOT to A LOT of people, and it isn't always your own. That's where I get the idea from. That is is vandalism, and it is disrespectfull to people who died to earn the freedoms the flag and to those who believe in what the flag stands for.
fancy pants
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December 16th, 2005 at 09:00pm
Burning something isn't peaceful? I think that's subjective, don't you? People burn candles. People have bonfires. The feminists burned bras. If someone burns a flag and it's not hurting anything besides for that small piece of cloth, then I don't see anything wrong with it. I'd consider that peaceful.

"Any activity that is considered to be damaging or destroying something that was good."

I think it's also pretty subjective that the flag is considered "good." Obviously if someone's burning the flag to make a statement they believe that it's not "good."

I also don't consider it to be disrespectful towards the people that died for our freedoms. It's because they died that we have the FREEDOM to burn the flag.
FUCK GSB
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December 16th, 2005 at 09:36pm
ExtraodinaryGirl:
Snow White:
ExtraodinaryGirl:
Robot:
hobo with a box:
I'm not sure what desecration means...but I have an idea...

I think that you should be patriotic to your country and not burn the
flag. And be respectful and not burn any countries flag.
It's mainly out of respect.

Like you wouldn't burn a picture of George Bush would you?
Wrong question...pffh.

Here: I wouln't burn a picture of Bill Clinton but by no means
do I believe in what he has to say...

I wouldn't burn an Afghanistan[I know I'm spelling that wrong] flag,
even though...they do kinda hate us...

That's just how I think. I guess I'm very patriotic...yet I'm the girl
who won't say the pledge cause it says "Under God". I'm messed up...


Isn't it disrespecting the ones who want to burn the flag by making it illegal for them to do so?


No. It's disrespectfull to vandalize something people have died for. It would be disrespecting to say people can't express themselves PEACEFULLY, burning a flag and vandalism isn't peacefull.


Flag burning isn't vandalism and it is peaceful. By burning a flag you don't hurt people physically and you don't destroy other people's things either. I don't understand where you get the idea flag burning=vandalism from.


van·dal·ism (vndl-zm)[not all the letters and symbols transfer
n.
1. Willful or malicious destruction of public or private property.

2. Any activity that is considered to be damaging or destroying something that was good.

Burning a meaningfull and symbolic piece of cloth is vandalism. Burning something isn't peacefull, especially if you are in a street or a room with anything flammable around you.
You destroy something that means A LOT to A LOT of people, and it isn't always your own. That's where I get the idea from. That is is vandalism, and it is disrespectfull to people who died to earn the freedoms the flag and to those who believe in what the flag stands for.


Well, you didn't prove it to be vandalism.
It is your own property, can't vandalise your own stuff....A flag isn't good.
ExtraodinaryGirl
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December 16th, 2005 at 10:01pm
Okay, wow, it's completely pointless to argue on you with you because you aren't even paying attention to what I'm saying, you're being narrow-minded, and you're acting like I don't have the right to think you shouldn't be able to burn a symbol of freedom, patriotism, and what people have tried to so hard to keep safe. People didn't die fighting for freedom from Britian so some idiot who doesn't know how to VOICE THEIR OPINION INTELLEGENTLY AND MATURLY can burn a flag.
Anyone who thinks the only way to speak out against the government is by burning something, shouldn't be talking about politics because they aren't mature enough for voice their opinions.
ExtraodinaryGirl
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December 16th, 2005 at 10:02pm
And no, burning a flag isn't peacefull. Burning a candle isn't unpeacefull. Burning a CONTROLLED fire isn't unpeacefull. Burning a flag, vandalising what so many people have fought for and destroying it, is. Nobody fought so that idiots could burn a flag.

I'm sorry that I think burning a symbol of freedom is disrespectfull and people should learn how to speak, but this isn't even a discussion anymore. All you're doing is acting like my opinion is WRONG. You're repeating yourself, so it's completely pointless to continue this arguement. See ya when you learn to respect people's opinions and symbols of freedom and patriatism. Rolling Eyes
Faith
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December 16th, 2005 at 10:19pm
ExtraodinaryGirl:
And no, burning a flag isn't peacefull. Burning a candle isn't unpeacefull. Burning a CONTROLLED fire isn't unpeacefull. Burning a flag, vandalising what so many people have fought for and destroying it, is. Nobody fought so that idiots could burn a flag.

I'm sorry that I think burning a symbol of freedom is disrespectfull and people should learn how to speak, but this isn't even a discussion anymore. All you're doing is acting like my opinion is WRONG. You're repeating yourself, so it's completely pointless to continue this arguement. See ya when you learn to respect people's opinions and symbols of freedom and patriatism. Rolling Eyes


This discussion has become an "I'm so cool that I burn the flag" thing.
Well, as I said in the very first reply to this topic - I don't think the desecration should be outlawed, but I don't think it's a right thing to do. I wouldn't do it, but you can do it if it makes you feel like you're the king of the world.
Rainbows in the Dark
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December 21st, 2005 at 09:03pm
When I started the topic I just wanted to see what you guys thought about this. I didn't realize it would get this...um what's the word.....heated?
I know I've already stated my opinion but it's kind of changed.
I respect America, I respect people that gave their lives so I can have freedom. But one of those freedoms is being able to express yourself peacefully. As long as you ahve a point and purpose for buring a flag I say go for it. However if you burn it just to be cool I think that is disrespecting the country. So basically if you burn a flag for a good reason that you really believe in it's okay, otherwise, it's not.
NeoSteph
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December 21st, 2005 at 10:40pm
I don't know, i don't see myself as very patriotic but the thought of someone burning the Union Jack sickens me.

I mean sure, it's a piece of cloth, but what you would be destroying is not something that represents a government, It represents the people of your nation.

Your not achieving anything by it, sure your making a stand for whatever reason, but can anyone remember when the twin towers got hit and they showed footage of a middle-eastern society burning the American flag, think about what that felt like watching that.

A flag is just a piece of cloth, like a guitar is a piece of wood, or a book is just paper, it symbolises so much more.
FUCK GSB
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December 21st, 2005 at 11:29pm
ExtraodinaryGirl:
Okay, wow, it's completely pointless to argue on you with you because you aren't even paying attention to what I'm saying, you're being narrow-minded, and you're acting like I don't have the right to think you shouldn't be able to burn a symbol of freedom, patriotism, and what people have tried to so hard to keep safe. People didn't die fighting for freedom from Britian so some idiot who doesn't know how to VOICE THEIR OPINION INTELLEGENTLY AND MATURLY can burn a flag.
Anyone who thinks the only way to speak out against the government is by burning something, shouldn't be talking about politics because they aren't mature enough for voice their opinions.


Don't say i'm being narrow minded, don't say it's not a mature thing to do, don't say it's unintelligent, because you are wrong on all; and I can say as well that representing everything that you hold dear through STUFF, like a flag, is unintelligent, and immature, and a bad way to show your opinion. Why? Because, it's showing you are materialistic.
"you shouldn't be able to burn a symbol of freedom, patriotism, and what people have tried to so hard to keep safe."
Think about that, if that's what a flag represents to you...and somebody is burning that. What does this country, and it's symbol of 'freedom', patriotism, and what people have murdered millions to keep 'safe' mean to them? NOTHING, you show your feelings about this country by flying your flag, I show my feelings about it by burning them.
Understand? I am not a narrow minded person, I think very openly about almost everything. I see things about this from many aspects.
Any other things you want to wrongfully accuse people of? Rolling Eyes
Spirit Of '77
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December 21st, 2005 at 11:38pm
Robot:
ExtraodinaryGirl:
Okay, wow, it's completely pointless to argue on you with you because you aren't even paying attention to what I'm saying, you're being narrow-minded, and you're acting like I don't have the right to think you shouldn't be able to burn a symbol of freedom, patriotism, and what people have tried to so hard to keep safe. People didn't die fighting for freedom from Britian so some idiot who doesn't know how to VOICE THEIR OPINION INTELLEGENTLY AND MATURLY can burn a flag.
Anyone who thinks the only way to speak out against the government is by burning something, shouldn't be talking about politics because they aren't mature enough for voice their opinions.


Don't say i'm being narrow minded, don't say it's not a mature thing to do, don't say it's unintelligent, because you are wrong on all; and I can say as well that representing everything that you hold dear through STUFF, like a flag, is unintelligent, and immature, and a bad way to show your opinion. Why? Because, it's showing you are materialistic.
"you shouldn't be able to burn a symbol of freedom, patriotism, and what people have tried to so hard to keep safe."
Think about that, if that's what a flag represents to you...and somebody is burning that. What does this country, and it's symbol of 'freedom', patriotism, and what people have murdered millions to keep 'safe' mean to them? NOTHING, you show your feelings about this country by flying your flag, I show my feelings about it by burning them.
Understand? I am not a narrow minded person, I think very openly about almost everything. I see things about this from many aspects.
Any other things you want to wrongfully accuse people of? Rolling Eyes


besides, looking at from the other person's point of view (extraordinarygirl) would be considered to be MORE narrowminded, because she stands strictly on the side of the patriots and doesn't give any thought to the ideas of those who have other ideas.

oh how i love to point out people's hypocracy Very Happy

and jason's right. if the flag means that much to you, then you're just materialistic. burning the flag wouldn't take away any "freedoms" or any of that shit that you claim it "stands for". so what do we really need a flag for anyway? it's not like without the flag there is no constitution or anything like these people seem to think, so why even have it at all?
Faith
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December 22nd, 2005 at 12:52am
Spirit Of '77:
Robot:
ExtraodinaryGirl:
Okay, wow, it's completely pointless to argue on you with you because you aren't even paying attention to what I'm saying, you're being narrow-minded, and you're acting like I don't have the right to think you shouldn't be able to burn a symbol of freedom, patriotism, and what people have tried to so hard to keep safe. People didn't die fighting for freedom from Britian so some idiot who doesn't know how to VOICE THEIR OPINION INTELLEGENTLY AND MATURLY can burn a flag.
Anyone who thinks the only way to speak out against the government is by burning something, shouldn't be talking about politics because they aren't mature enough for voice their opinions.


Don't say i'm being narrow minded, don't say it's not a mature thing to do, don't say it's unintelligent, because you are wrong on all; and I can say as well that representing everything that you hold dear through STUFF, like a flag, is unintelligent, and immature, and a bad way to show your opinion. Why? Because, it's showing you are materialistic.
"you shouldn't be able to burn a symbol of freedom, patriotism, and what people have tried to so hard to keep safe."
Think about that, if that's what a flag represents to you...and somebody is burning that. What does this country, and it's symbol of 'freedom', patriotism, and what people have murdered millions to keep 'safe' mean to them? NOTHING, you show your feelings about this country by flying your flag, I show my feelings about it by burning them.
Understand? I am not a narrow minded person, I think very openly about almost everything. I see things about this from many aspects.
Any other things you want to wrongfully accuse people of? Rolling Eyes


besides, looking at from the other person's point of view (extraordinarygirl) would be considered to be MORE narrowminded, because she stands strictly on the side of the patriots and doesn't give any thought to the ideas of those who have other ideas.

oh how i love to point out people's hypocracy Very Happy

and jason's right. if the flag means that much to you, then you're just materialistic. burning the flag wouldn't take away any "freedoms" or any of that shit that you claim it "stands for". so what do we really need a flag for anyway? it's not like without the flag there is no constitution or anything like these people seem to think, so why even have it at all?


I kinda think burning the falg is not that good of an idea, not because it's not patriotic, or because it's a symbol of something people died for...but simply because it's very contradictory - if burning a flag just meant expressing that one idea you fight for, it would be fine, but when someone burns the flag they often unintentionally hurt the feelings of people that are just as patriotic. Of course, it's just a piece of cloth, but it's a very important symbols and it's natural for people to treasure symbols - we frame pictures, wear wedding rings, keep concert tickets and old toys. Expressing your ideas is great, but when people burn the flag of their own country they often don't realize that they express more than they wanted to.
And if we're going into calling people on hypocrisy - well, when someone says they burn the flag to express their ideas and don't care about whatever the fuck the flag stands for 'cuz it's just a piece of cloth anyway, wouldn't that be hypocritic? If it's just a piece of cloth and it stands for nothing, then what idea do you express by burning it? Why don't you go out and burn your bed clothes if it's just about burning a piece of?

I wouldn't burn the flag, but I wouldn't outlaw the burning simply because I don't think the right to burn the flag should be taken away. I just think when people burn the flag they should understand that this act doesn't make their ideas perfectly clear to people around. You might be burning the flag to show your patriotism, while to a lot of people this might look like you want to say you hate your country.
The whole idea of publically burning the flag is in expression of your beliefs. But what sense does it make when people can't see what exactly you are expressing. And if you say "I don't care what they think! What I think is what matters", then why would you even go out and burn the flag? You can quietly take a piss on on it at home where no one can see you and be happy about having expressed your opinion...
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