Smoking

oh and i just found this.

"About 40% of smokers mentally ill: SANE"

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/071212/9/39pu.html

so camera obscura: you might wanna think about that before saying if it true their would be alot more smokers..

Opheliac_666:

oh and i just found this.

"About 40% of smokers mentally ill: SANE"

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/071212/9/39pu.html

so camera obscura: you might wanna think about that before saying if it true their would be alot more smokers..

you haven't pwned me with that.

what difference does it make if they are mentally ill or not? sure maybe some of them did reach for that first fag thinking it would help them. but newsflash - it didn't.

40%? big deal.

By the mid-2020s, the WHO predicts, 85% of all smokers will come from the world's poorer countries. Smoking-related diseases are killing 4 million people a year worldwide and that number will rise to 10 million a year in the next 25 years. Of these, seven million deaths will occur in developing countries.
Rising death tolls are also expected in countries such as China and Japan, where between 50% and 60 % of adults are now smokers. People smoke, depression or not.

And sure, smoking is a psychological pleasure as it is a physiological satisfaction. It can help us shut down distraction and relax, but it has nothing to do with depression. Cigarettes do nothing useful to the body, on contrary, they only do harm.

Okay, firstly.

Research findings have not revealed whether common factors influence the development of anxiety, depression, and smoking, whether anxiety and depression lead to smoking, or whether the reverse is true.

They have found that there is a link between these disorders and smoking.

They don't know why yet.

They don't know if people are depressed because they smoke, smoke because they're depressed, or if there is a third factor, for example, distraction, at play.


-------------


I don't think you grasp what we are saying, yes if people are anxious or depressed smoking can be a way to distract them, to make them feel they can depend on something and have 'release' when they want to, but these are all PSYCHOLOGICAL aids.

I suppose you could argue that depression is both physiological and psychological, and in that way, smoking does help out.

However you could say this about many things, for example, people who self harm might say that it aids depression, lets them feel in control and releases 'feel-good' hormones, however, it is not a healthy way of dealing with self-destructive or anxious feelings, it may make them feel better in the short term, but in the bigger picture, it hardly relieves depression.




Let me give you an example from Stephen Fry..

Imagine that one day someone hit himself lightly on the head with a parsnip. Instead of stopping (for this is a foolish thing to do) he carried on doing it. When he eventually did stop he went about his business but discovered, much to his surprise, that he had a sudden unconquerable urge to hit himself lightly on the head with a parsnip all over again. So he did. And the more he did it, the more he needed to do it. The act of doing it gave him a tiny surge of joy, a little rush of pleasure that had to be elicited, never mind what a twazzock he looked, parsnipping himself on the head all day.

Smoking is no less stupid than that. In fact it is a whole bicycle-shed more stupid, because it’s smelly, unsociable, carcinogenic etc etc etc. But the principle is the same: smoking has absolutely no point other than to stop the misery of not smoking. Smokers claim that it aids concentration, soothes the nerves and so on, but we know really that it only does those things because it’s tobacco addiction that messes with concentration and jangles the nerves in the first place. Tapping your head lightly with a parsnip would aid concentration too if not doing it made you all jumpy and desperate.

..get me?

As always, almighty Stephen is right.

Anji:

As always, almighty Stephen is right.

He's like, a modern age philosopher

Parsnips FTW.

bjtp:

Parships FTW.

Parship?
I see a big parsnip shapped ship!

Parsnipping and twazzock FTW.

Ooops..

Parships FTW too!

Opheliac_666:

i'm not sure if i mentioned this but i heard passive smokers are the ones more at risk with the diseases because they aren't as immune to it as what the heavy smokers are. meh might of heard that from here actually

Actually, its true. You see, an active smoker has these protective reflexes or something in the lungs and all that, and thus is somewhat protected from some poisons and all that, while the passive smoker gets little of the poison, thus no reflexes, but alltogether, its the same effect as an active smoker has. Makes sense? I think about two of my friends are active smokers and i suppose i classify as an occassional/passive smoker. Pointless activity, to be quite honest.
EDIT: costly too... and i got the info from one of those times i actually listened in biology... tee hee

it's your choice if your going to smoke or not, so it's your choice to get cancer then. don't sue those companies for something you chose to do. that's like trying to sue mcdonalds for making you fat lol

bjtp:

Okay, firstly.

Research findings have not revealed whether common factors influence the development of anxiety, depression, and smoking, whether anxiety and depression lead to smoking, or whether the reverse is true.

They have found that there is a link between these disorders and smoking.

They don't know why yet.

They don't know if people are depressed because they smoke, smoke because they're depressed, or if there is a third factor, for example, distraction, at play.


-------------


I don't think you grasp what we are saying, yes if people are anxious or depressed smoking can be a way to distract them, to make them feel they can depend on something and have 'release' when they want to, but these are all PSYCHOLOGICAL aids.

I suppose you could argue that depression is both physiological and psychological, and in that way, smoking does help out.

However you could say this about many things, for example, people who self harm might say that it aids depression, lets them feel in control and releases 'feel-good' hormones, however, it is not a healthy way of dealing with self-destructive or anxious feelings, it may make them feel better in the short term, but in the bigger picture, it hardly relieves depression.




Let me give you an example from Stephen Fry..

Imagine that one day someone hit himself lightly on the head with a parsnip. Instead of stopping (for this is a foolish thing to do) he carried on doing it. When he eventually did stop he went about his business but discovered, much to his surprise, that he had a sudden unconquerable urge to hit himself lightly on the head with a parsnip all over again. So he did. And the more he did it, the more he needed to do it. The act of doing it gave him a tiny surge of joy, a little rush of pleasure that had to be elicited, never mind what a twazzock he looked, parsnipping himself on the head all day.

Smoking is no less stupid than that. In fact it is a whole bicycle-shed more stupid, because it’s smelly, unsociable, carcinogenic etc etc etc. But the principle is the same: smoking has absolutely no point other than to stop the misery of not smoking. Smokers claim that it aids concentration, soothes the nerves and so on, but we know really that it only does those things because it’s tobacco addiction that messes with concentration and jangles the nerves in the first place. Tapping your head lightly with a parsnip would aid concentration too if not doing it made you all jumpy and desperate.

..get me?

there's something is nicotine that does relieve, like i said i know a few people who smoke when they're depressed. it relieves depression and stress. it really doesn't have anything to cutting yourself.

anyway i'm going to give up because you guys really can't understand the facts that it does.

I'm not saying it has anything to do with cutting yourself, I was drawing a parallel.

yeah then how i come how i felt like crying while listening to the used so i went for a smoke now i don't feel like crying while listening to the used.

Opheliac_666:

anyway i'm going to give up because you guys really can't understand the facts that it does.

Can't we?
Nice debate you've got there, calling us stupid and everything

Opheliac_666:

yeah then how i come how i felt like crying while listening to the used so i went for a smoke now i don't feel like crying while listening to the used.

because you think it helped you. Like I've said earlier, placebo effect.
Give a moron a pill of aspirin and say it's ecstasy, 5 minutes later he'll start hugging everyone.

and stop listening to the used if it makes you cry, gosh.

Also nicotine excites your immune system and so it may have lifted your mood in the short term, as in like.. 15 minutes. But that could be enough to make you stop feeling sad.

Opheliac_666:

yeah then how i come how i felt like crying while listening to the used so i went for a smoke now i don't feel like crying while listening to the used.

Many different facotors could change this.

Like, you stopped listening to the music while you were having a smoke so your mind was on a different thing, you were outside having the cigarette, maybe, or just possibley that within the space of however long it took you to smoke the cigarette that you may have actually brightened up a bit? I know that I can feel sad for like, 5 minutes or whatever and want to ball my eyes out and then the next minute, I'm perfectly fine.

camera obscura:

Opheliac_666:

anyway i'm going to give up because you guys really can't understand the facts that it does.

Can't we?
Nice debate you've got there, calling us stupid and everything

i did? you might wanna re-read what i said. you're just ignoring the fact. end of.

camera obscura:

Opheliac_666:

yeah then how i come how i felt like crying while listening to the used so i went for a smoke now i don't feel like crying while listening to the used.

because you think it helped you. Like I've said earlier, placebo effect.
Give a moron a pill of aspirin and say it's ecstasy, 5 minutes later he'll start hugging everyone.

and stop listening to the used if it makes you cry, gosh.

it was one fucking song. no songs make you emotional? and trust me, it isn't placebo affect. it's what nicotine can do to you, relieve depression.