Gore/Kerry

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spill_no_sick
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June 29th, 2006 at 07:49pm
I forgot to thank you admitting to the WMDs that were found (and they were found in the last few months in case that's not what you were mentionind - but the Cold War was a scary time and we are kind of reliving it now.....except we said "since we're trying to take down this tyrant now, why don't we get rid of potential/temptational crap he has going on?"

so once he's found guilt of crimes against humanity (which he should have been found guilty for in the eighties...it would be Hitler-esque if he was biased on who he brutally murdered....) we'll probably "nose in their buisness" and "establish a Democracy when no one wants it" and Saddaam will be free to bang Satan all he wants; but for now we're trying to undo things he's done (WMDs....which were bought in the eighties during the Cold War, but they later continued manufacturing...
dirtyhippie
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July 5th, 2006 at 11:47am
Let's take this one at a time.

1) This is an insanely mixed-up argument. I'm just not gonna take the time to do transition sentences or really organize it all, because I'm late as it is on responding. (Personally, I say meh.) Normally I hate choppiness, but I'm slacking. It's summer.

2) I'd rather Bush wasn't Superman, really...it makes Christopher Reeves' legacy so much less. Maybe if we can get him to settle for Plastic Man. maybe The Question. (Heh, now nobody knows what I'm talking about and I can get away with saying whatever I want.) But to the point: Once we changed the government because we decided that we didn't love the 80s anymore, we had to deal with people being party poopers...just because we trashed their homes and killed their families for no particular reason. C'mon, we blew up a hotel on the off-chance that Hussein was in it! Hundreds of civilian casualties. So THEN they go off and join the terrorist groups in the north of Iraq, an area held by terrorism's martial law. Legally Hussein controlled it, but he couldn't enforce his authority there. He just left them alone. So yes, we started fighting terrorist groups there, but the insurgency would have been that much smaller if we'd taken out Hussein's government intelligently, and with competence.

3) I know, "All your base are belong to us!" That's George's new slogan. And it certainly seemed like a war against a country, what with Bush denouncing, um, the leader of the country's government for "aiding terrorists." True, they don't flee from the innocent...cuz they're, whaddyacall, terrororists. But just because they frequent cities and such doesn't mean we can kill indiscriminately in the name of stopping terrorists.

4) As for WMDs, you're welcome. No problem. But we're talking "potential crap" he's got going on, which brings up preemptive warfare. I've got a gigantic problem with getting rid of him for stuff he MIGHT do. That's the realm of Dionne Warwick and Ms. Cleo. Tha'ts not for the executive branch to screw around with. If Bush wanted him taken out, he should have taken him out for legitimate reasons. And "undoing things he's done"? Hard to bring back the Kurds. WMDs again? He bought 'em fair and square from us, and began producing them likewise. Only after Bush Sr. hobbled into Iraq and the UN gave him a talking-to on the hard bnch in their office did we have a problem with Iraq's weapons program. So the UN took them all away and Clinton sent bombs into Iraq throughout his regime. Hussein's program was crippled.

5) As for the actual topic of this thread (which we have to talk about to avoid a talking-to from Steph and Kitti), you don't trust Gore cuz he wouldn't appreciate the power? But he held the number-two spot for eight years. What else do you want to appreciate the power? And Kerry has been in the Senate for twenty years. I think the voters thought he was right for American government about five times. If you just don't think they'd handle the power of the presidency in an appropriate way as per your priorities, et cetera, then fine. No argument, because like I've said, we place different things at different levels of importance. But I don't think experience et al. is a factor.
spill_no_sick
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July 5th, 2006 at 03:34pm
1. My mixed up argument was a response to your mixed up argument. I'm not going to be as thorough though, 'kay?

2. Yes, mistakes were made on our side, maybe not as bad as you make them seem, but we went in against terrorist organizations, and we moved with them
while in there we decided to go after Hussein, the main name in the war against terrorism was Bin Laden for about a year or two
so we didn't set out against Hussein until we entered his lands and found out how shitty it still is for people that aren't him over there, and then we got word of some other shit and I realized I should save the rest of this for number four......but are main plan wasn't to take out his government, it was to take him out, b tas we all know plans change very suddenly when we have a president trying to live up to Superman's standards, he does feel like we should just make everything there perfect
like when your mom goes in your room to pick up your socks and then decides to clean everything, repaint everything and do everything to your room and she spends like three weeks on "picking up your socks"
that's what I liken it to

3. It's still not as bad as you make it seem, we don't just go shooting down the streets and hope we kill some one who works for a terrorist organization
I believe that we do retaliate if we're attacked in the situation of just walking down the street
and I'm sorry, I don't understand the last sentence

4. And I know we can't predict what someone *cough*murdererofover100,000citizensinIraqalone*cough* would do with weapons of mass destruction, but it's not as if he was cooperating with us when we "nosed in their buisness" and tried to at least establish saftey measures....in case he accidentaly slips on some water on his floor and "drops" them on some one (and the people within a few miles of them) he doesn't like

5. No, actually I don't think presidents hold too much power, but I don't think Gore would treat it like president, he'd treat it like he's president of a charity or something, and that's what he should get, elected head of a charity because I think he'd make a great leader if only he could handle things better
and I don't think Kerry would do it right either
he would be president with the illusion the U.S. can enjoy the same peace as say...Canadia
we can't, sorry
but if we did everything perfectly from now on, did nothing to piss anyone off, they would still try to start shit with us because they know dees homies be runnin da hood, and ya can't back down from head homie witout no fight
sorry, but you get what I'm saying?
we just can't go through with what he thinks we can, peace isn't possible for us whether you want to believe it or not, we can't give the people more benefits because our people can't be trusted
Canadia can enjoy peace because they stay out of anything to get people pissed at them (except for promising to back da head homie in da battle but pussin out, no problem bitch, we take care of ourselves down herr) and they can trust that their citizens only take the free meds they want
what do we do?
that's right, take Tylenol and Bendril to make illegal drugs, we can't be trusted with the most legal of drugs
sorry Kerry, but Canadia is the place for you, and you would serve them well
spill_no_sick
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July 5th, 2006 at 03:35pm
I forgot to add, that there were 100,000 Shiites alone who died in the 1991 massacres....so yeah, there are more, but I can't find a credible source who gives me an allover number
dirtyhippie
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July 6th, 2006 at 03:54pm
1. I'm not talking about yours...I'm just saying, mine is mixed up to the MAX...I don't care about your just as long as I can string the words together in a fashion that at least makes a Bushism.

2. Mistakes made on our side were monstrous. An Abrams tank fired on the Palestine Hotel, causing six casualties. Al-Jazeera was hit by a missile, causing six casualties. Bin Laden was the big name in terrorism until around a year after we were attacked. Bush was having trouble finding him, it was just too hard, and Hussein became the new Osama. We set out to get Hussein starting in January of 2003, when Bush described Hussein as an "imminent threat"; if you believe Wesley Clark, Bush was after Saddam right after 9/11. The main plan was, as far as I can tell, exactly what you say it wasn't: to take out Saddam and his regime, which Bush claimed was in the business of coddling terrorists (which it didn't) and making illegal bombs (which it couldn't). This is more like a case of your mom saying that your socks are dirty with holes in them and throwing them out...when you bought them three weeks ago.

3. I didn't say we did, but: look at the number of civilian casualties. iraqbodycount.org lists the minimum number of official reported civilian casualties as 38,839. Minimum. That's more than retaliatory, that's just irresponsible and incompetent. For this, I blame George Bush, because it's his job to oversee all of our military operations. He certainly hasn't said that anything's gone wrong. And then, think about what the military has been reported as doing in the name of retaliation. 7 Marines are on trial for murder to get back at those damn brown people that killed their buddies...even though it's not the same people. I'm not sure I'm too wild even about retaliation if that's what it is. ...And I what I said meant, "Just cuz these guys're in cities doesn't mean we can kill all the city peeps we want to stop these guys."

4. What safety measures are you referring to? I looked around some and found little...for instance, a Google search for " "safety measures" iraq" yields hits about how US checkpoints need better safety measures in order to protect civilians et al. and how the UN sanctions lacked long-term safety measures. And that's close to an op-ed. So I'm not sure what safety measures you mean...
And Saddam can't do ANYTHING with WMDs that he didn't even have.

5. I can't say that I understand what you're saying at all. Maybe I'm naive, but I can't seem to fathom why on Earth we can't live in peace. Seems like most other countries do it. What was the last war France was in? Germany? C'mon, Luxembourg? Maybe nobody cares about them, but they've got it made as far as I can tell in terms of warfare. America seems to view itself as the 24/7 security detail in the mall of the world, but with Marines rather than rent-a-cops. Our nation does look at itself as "da head homie" and that's exactly the problem. We're too stuck-up for peace. We need to let that go.
spill_no_sick
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July 6th, 2006 at 11:00pm
I'll post the rest tommarrow....but....

3. iraqbodycount.org there's a site we know holds no biases.....I refuse to accept information from either side because both will bullshit to the limit of stretching the truth

it's like me not accepting candy from strangers, because of posion
and me not accepting candy from parents or librarians or teachers, because it's sugar-free

but rather, getting candy at a shop where they sell too much candy to care about candy, but just care about money
therefore I'm secure with my tampering
spill_no_sick
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July 7th, 2006 at 12:57pm
1. whateva

2. "Bush had trouble finding Osama, it was just too hard." Sorry, but what kind of bull shit is that? #1 Osama's the biggest dude there, he has people getting surgery to look like him for his safety, he has countries protecting him and hiding him. #2 Quit refering to our country or our army as, "Bush", this isn't Bush in his office reading, "Where's Osama", we have our army after Osama, not Bush, the U.S. army
just because it's political don't think that Bush is the one controlling it, yes he's the president, but he doesn't have as much power as you give him credit for
and yes, this is your mom throwing out your three week old socks, then buying you new ones and also buying you new shoes so you don't wear the new socks out

4. and if you're searchin Google expect to find stuff about how the U.S. is screwing everything up and how Bush is screwing everything up because that's all anyone wants to hear therefore that's what the search results will yeild
if you search, "failure" the first thing that comes up is Bush's biography, and that's because people pay for anti-Bush search results to be first because, as Stephen Colbert said, "you care more about making Bush look bad than electing some one to do better"

5. and I know people don't want to hear the truth but: that's because the French are pussies
if you want to live in peace then yes you can move to France or Canadia because they stay out of the spotlight
and I don't think changing our mentality would be the big turning point
you are naive if you think the U.S. can live in peace for too long, we just can't
and if we were going to change our mentality we don't need work on where we veiw ourselves in the world...because the truth is the U.S. does seem to be where most of the stuff is happening
yes, we're rivaled by Canadia when it comes to wealth and prosperity, and we're rivaled to England when it comes to sports and celebrities and music and such.....but then again we have to change the world's veiw as well as our own veiw of us before we're alowed to live peacefully
dirtyhippie
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July 8th, 2006 at 04:46pm
[quote="spill_no_sick"]1. whateva indeed.

2. It's the kind of bullshit that makes sense. 1) He's a man on a dialysis machine. He can't be moving around, he has to be stationary. And we have satellites that can literally read the license plate on a car from orbit. They're unable to find a man in a cave? 2) Bush is our country's spokesman, the most powerful politician we have, and the leader of our armed forces. When I think about the government, I think about the administration first, because the course our country ultimately pursues is by and large up to the executive branch. Sure, there's checks and balances to keep him from too much power, but when you control the executive branch and have a majority of representation in the legislative and judicial, your ideas are not gonna have trouble going through. At any rate, if Bush ISN'T in his offcie saying "Where's Osama?" then something's wrong. I was under the impression that he'd engineered the deaths of thousands of American citizens. To my mind, that makes him pretty much top priority. Osama is the filthy gym sweat-sock that Mom mysteriously leaves lying about.

3. Actually, since iraqbodycount.org is working off of all media-reported deaths, I don't think there's much they can do regarding their agenda. Do you have proof that they add deaths to their counters randomly? If not, then, well, they're a reputable source. I'll do some more checking for different numbers if you insist.

4. Hey, does quoting Steve Colbert twice mean that the rest of us get to use entertainers now? Cuz you've placed a moratorium on that at least since my first post on this site, and I'd hate for you to do something hypocritical. Who pays for anti-Bush sites to come up first? Site some stuff for me. This is the first I'd heard about it, I thought the Bush bio was just a funny coincidence.

5. If the option is pussy or death, guess which one the man with "dirtyhippie" as his username is going for? And why do you say we "just can't" stay out of war? I'll give you that we've a got a history of war that has us going to war every couple of decades, on average. But just because that's the way things have been in the past doesn't mean that's the way things have to be in the future. We can always become a less agressive nation, etc., which is by no accounts a bad thing! If being "in the spotlight" and not being "pussies" means we need to kill thousands of people every few decades, why do we persist in our macho appearance? Wouldn't it be better for everyone if we just...stopped? It's not unrealistic, I don't particularly think it's naive. Maybe I'm idealistic, but maybe we could use a few more idealists.
spill_no_sick
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July 9th, 2006 at 05:40pm
2. he's obviously not in a cave if he's stationary and he can't be found
I have no clues where he is, but he's extremely well hidden, and we all know the type of support he has, he could have surgery to look like a regular old guy in the hospital (I bet he's in France though, I say we bomb all of France just in case
and yet we have plenty of other socks lying about, the gym sock fell under the washer and it's my guess that if it isn't found soon it won't be found for about 20 of these metaphor years when the machine is changed or the owners move out
we have so many other priorities in play and we're trying to take care of them all at once so yes it's hard
Bush does have a huge impact, but he just doesn't have the power to do all the stuff we blame him for
yes, he has more power than any SINGLE PERSON in the U.S. government, so why does he have to be the country's scapegoat?

3.YOUR SITE IS CALLED IRAQBODYCOUNT! c'mon, it's so easy to tell they'll give a high number
and they're counting war related deaths, you know that at most 37% is actually U.S. troops doing this, and I'm willing to bet that car bombs and suicide bombs have the highest percentage among the deaths in Iraq, that's what's on the news everyday, even the news stations trying to pin the blame on Bush
and wait, then who's letting off all of those deaths due to attacking U.S. troops or bombings and such, since they are then the most responsible for death in this war.....oh yeah, terrorists
now, why won't anyone try to stop them! or declare war on them or something
everyone seems to be pissed at this war because of all the deaths, but the terrorists are responsible for most of the deaths ,why won't anyone do anything about it?
(for those slower people: that means that the war is fighting terrorism, there are people mad at the death toll, but the death toll is mainly due to terrorists, who we are fighting.....starting to see a reason for this war?

4. I quoted him because I've often said something similar but now that he's said it in words that don't confuse the hell out of you I should site where I got it (I tried to make it seem as if it wasn't the dude who was on Comedy Central as much as just some guy who runs a newspaper.....but I guess his name is more recognizable than I thought
fine, next time I'll change two words and call it my own
and if you're going to play dumb and act as if Google isn't paid bajillions to have sites come up on the first page or something then fine, I'll just find a snopes link since they always have something
http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/google.asp

5. I said, "the French are pussis", I didn't say you needed to be a pussy to achieve peace, it's just a coincidence that the French are peaceful pussies
and if we just stop then we'll be attacked (don't think I'm paranoid, it happens
we don't just say, "hmm, it's been like fifteen years since we've had war, let's go ahead and start up again"
this time it was one day that totaled in the deaths of 2,819 people from over 150 different nations on one day in two towers
we decided to take down their terrorist organization
call me paranoid but I think they have potential to do some horrible stuff
you're being very idealistic if you think this wouldn't happen, you're being overidealistic if you think we'd just let that happen
we have world power, the world knows that, so it'd be like making a movie with Johnny Depp playing the main character and having a bunch of no name kids as the rest of the cast, and expecting the people in the theatre to concentrate on some poor kid named Charlie....even if Johnny downplays the character
look, we can't hide from everyone noticing we have world power, Maine and Florida can't touch to put us in the fetal position until people start paying attention to the U.K.
sabot4ge
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July 9th, 2006 at 05:45pm
JOHN KERRY is going to run for election again in 2008

i'll vote for him, like I did in 2004

Smile
Kitti
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July 9th, 2006 at 05:53pm
sabot4ge:
JOHN KERRY is going to run for election again in 2008

i'll vote for him, like I did in 2004

Smile
Supposing he makes it through the Democratic primaries, you mean.
spill_no_sick
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July 9th, 2006 at 05:56pm
Kitti:
sabot4ge:
JOHN KERRY is going to run for election again in 2008

i'll vote for him, like I did in 2004

Smile
Supposing he makes it through the Democratic primaries, you mean.
as long as Clinton doesn't make it all the way forcing us to vote for the other candidate out of desparation
sabot4ge
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July 9th, 2006 at 05:57pm
what's wrong with hilary?

i'd vote for her if she ran

she probably won't win if she does, though
Kitti
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July 9th, 2006 at 06:00pm
spill_no_sick:
Kitti:
sabot4ge:
JOHN KERRY is going to run for election again in 2008

i'll vote for him, like I did in 2004

Smile
Supposing he makes it through the Democratic primaries, you mean.
as long as Clinton doesn't make it all the way forcing us to vote for the other candidate out of desparation
Pffft She won't make it. We won't have a female president for quite some time--female politicians tend to come off as bitchy and/or irrational. For some reason we expect compassion from female politicians and not male politicians. Social stigma or something...
But Kerry probably won't make it through the primaries, he already lost one election.
sabot4ge
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July 9th, 2006 at 06:01pm
kerry won't win either, most likely

kerry comes off as too much of an intellectual to win the presidency

look at the swing states: ohio, florida

not exactly havens of intelligence
spill_no_sick
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July 9th, 2006 at 06:07pm
sabot4ge:
kerry won't win either, most likely

kerry comes off as too much of an intellectual to win the presidency

look at the swing states: ohio, florida

not exactly havens of intelligence
please, he graduated the same college as Bush, and his grades were almost as high as Bush's

he's smart, he's just a Socialist in denial
Kitti
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July 9th, 2006 at 06:10pm
sabot4ge:
kerry won't win either, most likely

kerry comes off as too much of an intellectual to win the presidency

look at the swing states: ohio, florida

not exactly havens of intelligence
That's not why he won't make it through the primaries.
Kitti:
But Kerry probably won't make it through the primaries, he already lost one election.

Democrats can't afford to back him having already lost once.
He doesn't sound like an intellectual.
I've never seen an intellectual politician.
A C student at Yale is hardly an intellectual, anyone can get into Yale with the appropriate number of zeros behind the dollar sign, just like any other school.
spill_no_sick
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July 9th, 2006 at 06:16pm
he was more of a C+ student when you account for him being a hippie at the time
and you've been hanging around Sam too much to think he's gotten through life because he has money
he's a pretty smart guy (for an American, intelligent for a U.S. politician
he would make a great politician.....in Canadia, sorry, but he's so Canadian it's laughable
and the closest thing to Canadia here is California...poor hippie
Kitti
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July 9th, 2006 at 06:22pm
spill_no_sick:
he was more of a C+ student when you account for him being a hippie at the time
and you've been hanging around Sam too much to think he's gotten through life because he has money
he's a pretty smart guy (for an American, intelligent for a U.S. politician
he would make a great politician.....in Canadia, sorry, but he's so Canadian it's laughable
and the closest thing to Canadia here is California...poor hippie
No, that's not my point.
Yale may be Ivy League. But that doesn't mean all of its students are.
That's all I'm saying. The school really doesn't mean much, it's the grades you get there, whereever that school may be. Because no school doesn't need funding. Essentially.
spill_no_sick
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July 9th, 2006 at 06:33pm
Kitti:
spill_no_sick:
he was more of a C+ student when you account for him being a hippie at the time
and you've been hanging around Sam too much to think he's gotten through life because he has money
he's a pretty smart guy (for an American, intelligent for a U.S. politician
he would make a great politician.....in Canadia, sorry, but he's so Canadian it's laughable
and the closest thing to Canadia here is California...poor hippie
No, that's not my point.
Yale may be Ivy League. But that doesn't mean all of its students are.
That's all I'm saying. The school really doesn't mean much, it's the grades you get there, whereever that school may be. Because no school doesn't need funding. Essentially.
I know schools go further than charging and arm and a leg but your parent's arms and legs too but Kerry is still a pretty smart guy
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