Israel Palestine

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Emo Rules! Greenday Rules
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August 27th, 2005 at 08:08pm
Although I'm sure half of you tools don't have ay Idea whats going on over there, its Bad.

Discuss what you think the root of the problem is.

How to fix it, if fixing it is possible

Who rightfully owns the land.

If the 2 State Solution will work

If Israel should switch to the 1967 borders or not

If Zionism is Judisam

If Zionism is racist

If isreal should have Bombed the Iraqi Nuclear reactor

And Israels policy of Nuclear Opacity.

Go:
NeoSteph
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August 27th, 2005 at 08:43pm
wow calling us tools, what a delightful way of starting the debate.

However the stem of the problem of Palestine began in 1945. I can understand how Jewish settelers believed they had a religious right to the land however palestinians had been living their for 5000 thousand years and had claim too. seeing as they were willing to share with Jewish settelers

I have always taken Palestines side in the debate, Muslims wer forced out of their homes to make way for Israeli's, something which was justified because of the Jew's treatment in Nazi Germany.

The oslo peace treaty can only be described as cock up. Borders which put place as a temporary measure last 19 years due to changes in the government.

The only Palestinian ideal i disagree with is Hamas. and how the Palestinian leader had an agreement with him, however Arafat is gone now so what can you do.





On a personal not, i think you'll find that people on here know alot, and i wouldn't be so quick to judge.
NeoSteph
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August 27th, 2005 at 08:44pm
Also to start a debate you need to put your opinion first.
i.am.hawt.
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August 27th, 2005 at 08:44pm
NeoSteph:
wow calling us tools, what a delightful way of starting the debate.

However the stem of the problem of Palestine began in 1945. I can understand how Jewish settelers believed they had a religious right to the land however palestinians had been living their for 5000 thousand years and had claim too. seeing as they were willing to share with Jewish settelers

I have always taken Palestines side in the debate, Muslims wer forced out of their homes to make way for Israeli's, something which was justified because of the Jew's treatment in Nazi Germany.

The oslo peace treaty can only be described as cock up. Borders which put place as a temporary measure last 19 years due to changes in the government.

The only Palestinian ideal i disagree with is Hamas. and how the Palestinian leader had an agreement with him, however Arafat is gone now so what can you do.





On a personal not, i think you'll find that people on here know alot, and i wouldn't be so quick to judge.

yay! go neosteph!
Emo Rules! Greenday Rules
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August 27th, 2005 at 08:54pm
Oh Damn you showed me up. I actually just want to hear others opinions, I've read many books on the subject almost all of which Biased to one side or the other.

To be honest with you Neither has anyright being there. Isreal Doesn't truley belong there although after WWII they deserve a little peace, Anti-semitism was still remarkable high after world war two in almost all europian countries so they didn't belong there. Britan just decided to give them part of Palestine, a more or less un-inhabited settlement. Palestine really didn't complain about stolen land until deep into the conflict, not right when they lost it. But Palestine has a justified reason for wanting the land back, it was theirs originally; but the hatred that exists for israel is unjustified An Iranin leader said it was worth 6 million Arab lives to drive Israel into the sea. That Sort Of Hatred is justified on neither side.

I have to side with Israel for the sheer reason that if the Two State plan (Not oslo, Oslo is dead.) is ever implemented it will honestly be the end of the world as we know it.
NeoSteph
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August 27th, 2005 at 09:00pm
Emo Rules! Greenday Rules:
Oh Damn you showed me up. I actually just want to hear others opinions, I've read many books on the subject almost all of which Biased to one side or the other.

To be honest with you Neither has anyright being there. Isreal Doesn't truley belong there although after WWII they deserve a little peace, Anti-semitism was still remarkable high after world war two in almost all europian countries so they didn't belong there. Britan just decided to give them part of Palestine, a more or less un-inhabited settlement. Palestine really didn't complain about stolen land until deep into the conflict, not right when they lost it. But Palestine has a justified reason for wanting the land back, it was theirs originally; but the hatred that exists for israel is unjustified An Iranin leader said it was worth 6 million Arab lives to drive Israel into the sea. That Sort Of Hatred is justified on neither side.

I have to side with Israel for the sheer reason that if the Two State plan (Not oslo, Oslo is dead.) is ever implemented it will honestly be the end of the world as we know it.


I disagree purely because the Irsael people, will always have the support of America, so they have an ally.

Because of suicide bombers, Palestine does not have UN or NATO support and is left to defend itself.

I personally believe that the handling of Israel in 1947 was the drive of the problem, Muslims were thrown out of their homes, when it would been more simple to of re-instated Jews in a more peaceful way

However i also so how neccesary it was to deport jews from Europe after the war.

it's a never ending conflict.
Emo Rules! Greenday Rules
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August 27th, 2005 at 09:14pm
So they have america as an Ally, Lets say the two state plan is implemented and thus 5 million arabs immigrat into Israel. The israelu Government will Either abandon its policy of Intentional Ambiguity, resulting in an attack from Iran, thus a full scale nuclear war in the region creating Major Oil Shocks. Or Israel feels pressed by its arab neighbors and blows the middle east away, also creating massive oil shocks.

I'm really not for Israel at all, but I have to say that unless they completely move out of the region there will never be peace.
NeoSteph
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August 27th, 2005 at 09:21pm
Emo Rules! Greenday Rules:
So they have america as an Ally, Lets say the two state plan is implemented and thus 5 million arabs immigrat into Israel. The israelu Government will Either abandon its policy of Intentional Ambiguity, resulting in an attack from Iran, thus a full scale nuclear war in the region creating Major Oil Shocks. Or Israel feels pressed by its arab neighbors and blows the middle east away, also creating massive oil shocks.

I'm really not for Israel at all, but I have to say that unless they completely move out of the region there will never be peace.


granted if Nuclear war broke out, Oil would be the least of our problems Very Happy

I'm not saying i disagree with you, but i believe Israel will never be fully converted back to Palestine, purely because America is such a powerhouse, so immigrants entering Israel will not be a current problem, they have yet to get their foot in the door, so to speak.
Emo Rules! Greenday Rules
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August 27th, 2005 at 09:25pm
The Two State plan has Israel be converted back to palestine basically, and the two state plan is backed by bush, thus palestine agreeing to it is all that needs to happen.

It really doesn't matter that Israel is backed by the U.S. if we have another Terrorist attack and our retaliation is as weak as the war on terror they will know that we are nothing to fear. Why fear a nuclear weapon if you know they won't use it? Besdies the Arab governments against israel have stated that its worth countless lives to eliminate Israel. The elimination of Israel = End of the world.
NeoSteph
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August 27th, 2005 at 09:31pm
Emo Rules! Greenday Rules:
The Two State plan has Israel be converted back to palestine basically, and the two state plan is backed by bush, thus palestine agreeing to it is all that needs to happen.

It really doesn't matter that Israel is backed by the U.S. if we have another Terrorist attack and our retaliation is as weak as the war on terror they will know that we are nothing to fear. Why fear a nuclear weapon if you know they won't use it? Besdies the Arab governments against israel have stated that its worth countless lives to eliminate Israel. The elimination of Israel = End of the world.


I can't see a republican party backing Palestine, unless they've relented to wordly pressure.

However i was under the impression that the two state plans means that Israel is seperated into two states, allowing both sides to have a share.

I mostly studied the Gaza strip and Arafat in college, so new constitutions are a little foreign to me.
Emo Rules! Greenday Rules
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August 27th, 2005 at 10:41pm
I have a speech of Bush saying the two state plan will work, as for republicans supporting it, you must remeber bush is kind of a flip-floper.
zdf_jammin
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August 28th, 2005 at 01:24am
i thought kerry was the flip flopper?

anyway, i totally blew off reading all those comments, SORRY. i honestly think that there will always be tension between the two, regardless, but i do think the two state thing might make a difference. its really sad, i think, whenever i hear about this
Emo Rules! Greenday Rules
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August 28th, 2005 at 02:12pm
The State thing huh. You mean the two state plan? Yeah thats not going to do anything but have negative consequences. Maybe had you read all of the post you would have gotten that Speakertoes.
Eliana Rampage
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August 29th, 2005 at 07:49pm
As a Jew and as an Israeli I think I need to post here...sorry to any Anti-Semetics who may possibly exist here who are offended, I'd like to stand up for my country.

I think the Arabs have a right to live in Israel but they need to learn that killing is pointless. If they think were scared, we're not. In fact so many people are actually moving to Israel now...more than ever.

Oh and Bush doesn't do anything for Israel if you want the truth...sorry if you think otherwise but I lived there and it's the truth...

...o_O Wtf? Zionism is a political stance...Judaism is a totally different thing~


~Eli
NeoSteph
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August 29th, 2005 at 08:05pm
xXBillieOwnsXx:
As a Jew and as an Israeli I think I need to post here...sorry to any Anti-Semetics who may possibly exist here who are offended, I'd like to stand up for my country.

I think the Arabs have a right to live in Israel but they need to learn that killing is pointless. If they think were scared, we're not. In fact so many people are actually moving to Israel now...more than ever.

Oh and Bush doesn't do anything for Israel if you want the truth...sorry if you think otherwise but I lived there and it's the truth...

...o_O Wtf? Zionism is a political stance...Judaism is a totally different thing~



~Eli


I agree with you and you have no reason to apologoise for you post to people who are prejudice. Very Happy
Eliana Rampage
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August 29th, 2005 at 08:12pm
Okay good...lol I wasn't sure how to respond here since I'm around pro-Israeli people and Jews all the time...^^;
NeoSteph
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August 29th, 2005 at 08:17pm
xXBillieOwnsXx:
Okay good...lol I wasn't sure how to respond here since I'm around pro-Israeli people and Jews all the time...^^;


this is a debata section, but prejudice or suggestive discrimination is not tolerated, that's why i'm here Very Happy

I study mainly Jewish History but something about how Arabs WERE treated over there didn't fit right with me.
Eliana Rampage
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August 29th, 2005 at 08:22pm
Well when and which Arabs?
NeoSteph
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August 29th, 2005 at 08:30pm
xXBillieOwnsXx:
Well when and which Arabs?


1947, when european Jewish emmigrants were allowed to return to Israel. Instead of the Iraelian and British Government planning a residential area for them, they either destroyed Arabs homes or forced them to leave to make room for Jewish settelers, that's what i disagree with.
Eliana Rampage
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August 29th, 2005 at 08:31pm
Ah...well didn't the Arabs attack the Israeli's as well? I do recall the Arabs were completely against the Jews coming.
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