Wiretapping

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dirtyhippie
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dirtyhippie
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May 29th, 2006 at 04:04pm
The latest chapter in the sorry story of the NSA's domestic wiretapping...
http://today.reuters.com/News/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-05-27T210443Z_01_N27402424_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-EAVESDROPPING.xml

For those of you who don't know, the controversy is about the National Security Administration's use of wiretapping to monitor phone calls of suspected terrorists. Which would be dandy, but there were no warrants issued. So the administration says that the wiretaps were necessary to fight the War on Terror, while critics say that this was an illegal move and anyone connected with it is a criminal. Here's a good page to fill you in. http://www.npr.org/news/specials/nsawiretap/legality.html

I, of course, wishing to bring the Bushies to their knees, opt mostly for the latter. This is a simple invasion of the privacy that the Constitution guaratees us. It's illegal! Case closed.

But apparently not, because this is controversial today. So. Comments? Discuss, my minions, discuss! Nyah hah!
Miley Cyrus
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May 29th, 2006 at 08:06pm
Ah, yes. I've heard a lot about this.

It seems they're tapping random people's lines, who, in all probability, have nothing to do with Alcida. It's pretty stupid, really.
PanicOfBeliever
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May 30th, 2006 at 03:53am
But even if it is an invasion of your privacy, if you have nothing to hide then why care? I doubt they are interested in your shall I say "Typical" conversations, and would mainly pass over it.

If its keeping the country safe then why not?
Matt Smith
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May 30th, 2006 at 05:25am
PanicOfBeliever:
But even if it is an invasion of your privacy, if you have nothing to hide then why care?

There you have a strong case.

But even if you are innocent, does that make it right?.

Did anyone ever hear of the Clipper Chip?. I learnt about that recently. Its off topic but still relevant, you should go look it up on wikipedia.
Matty.
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May 30th, 2006 at 07:59am
Im in Australia so its doesnt really effect me, but if i was in USA then i would rather a call listened to rather than another September 11
Kurtni
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May 30th, 2006 at 10:05am
If they were suspected terrorists, go for it. I would rather have a citizen feel a bit violated then have another monument bombed and thousands of citizens die.

I know some idiot is going to say
"Well you wouldnt feel the same way if it was your lines being tapped"

Yes I would. I have nothing to hide, and if the government thinks me and my best friend talking about the hot guys we saw at the movies or conversing about shoes is vital information to prevent terrorist attacks, listen to whatever you want. It's a matter of homeland security, no one wants more people to die, so why not try to prevent it?
Kitti
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May 30th, 2006 at 04:08pm
It's a matter of the principles the country was founded on. John Locke's ideas of a social contract, that the government exists to protect the fundamental natural rights of its citizens. That means keeping us safe, but protecting (and respecting) our privacy.
Ideally, the government should have to have probable cause to get a warrant to tap homes of "suspected terrorists." But for that to happen, they have to have proof that the suspect has either done something or intends to. There simply is not enough evidence to do that in regard to "suspected terrorists," so that's where things like the Patriot Act come in to play.
In the process, innocent people's rights are being violated. Sure, innocent people have nothing to hide, but then the government is far overstepping the zone of tolerance where it's in our best interest for the government to impose on those rights a little bit.
Miley Cyrus
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May 30th, 2006 at 04:48pm
They aren't actually listening to the conversations, just getting records. Like, how long some conversations were, how often you called this person or another, etc.
I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it's pointless. They're wasting their time when they could be doing something more constructive.
spill_no_sick
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May 30th, 2006 at 04:49pm
then again, they don't listen in on our conversations, such propaganda is spread by the news

they just get stats about who we call, where we call, and how long we make the call

so I don't mind at all
I'm not calling suspected terrorists in any place they would hide for less than thirty seconds.....so they overlook me on the database

I could be crank calling the White House but they won't look at that information because it's useless


and if you want to make a strong case, learn to spell al-Qaeda
spill_no_sick
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May 30th, 2006 at 04:52pm
sheepless and redundant:
They aren't actually listening to the conversations, just getting records. Like, how long some conversations were, how often you called this person or another, etc.
I wouldn't have a problem with it, but it's pointless. They're wasting their time when they could be doing something more constructive.
they have computers sort the information Wink
I wouldn't waste my time sorting the largest database in the world by human

I don't get why this is contreversial
I get that the Senate decided not to tell everyone.....but then what would be the point in tracking suspected terrorists!
Matt Smith
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May 30th, 2006 at 05:00pm
A thought has suddenly occured to me: don't we have something similar in England with those 'golf balls' on Menwith Hill just outside Harrogate?

It is a listening station, fitted with the latest technology. It also houses satellite tracking systems, to track down and listen to terrorists. Theres some big US connection, and supposedly the worlds largest monitoring communications station.

Image

It might be just the fact that its been around since 1950, but there is no huge deal about it here. Sure there are protesters, but its all small-scale.
spill_no_sick
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May 30th, 2006 at 05:04pm
Bloodraine:
A thought has suddenly occured to me: don't we have something similar in England with those 'golf balls' on Menwith Hill just outside Harrogate?

It is a listening station, fitted with the latest technology. It also houses satellite tracking systems, to track down and listen to terrorists. Theres some big US connection, and supposedly the worlds largest monitoring communications station.

Image

It might be just the fact that its been around since 1950, but there is no huge deal about it here. Sure there are protesters, but its all small-scale.
you always seem to be the smart one who was levelheaded
Matty.
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May 31st, 2006 at 08:20pm
I_worship_tre_Cool:
spill_no_sick:
then let's clear things up
they have a huge database of STATISTICS on all calls in the U.S.

They check for 1. the length of the call (specifically under thirty seconds) 2. where it goes to (the Middle East, headquarters of some kind) and stuff like that

they don't listen to what you say in the conversation, just stuff like how long it takes you and where the call is going, otherwise they don't use the information

they tried to keep it secret (obviously, you don't want to tell the world how you're sneaking up on suspected terrorists) until retarded people on the news wanted credit for breaking the story and put the country in jeopardy just to make the president look worse

do they aren't listening in on anyone without probable cause.....which means your calls are safe
So basically this is all getting blown out of porportion by the media in an attempt to make him look like a jackass when really he is doing it to better homeland security and prevent another 9/11? Thank you for enlightening me and clearing that up Up

Yea thats what i said, just another cheap shot at the president to try and make him look bad for trying to help keep them safe
State Radio
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May 31st, 2006 at 08:40pm
It's not like I am a terrorist trying to plot against the country, so it doesn't really matter. But!!! if the whole US is announcing this, won't terrorists just use some other form of communication? I'm sure they've heard that this is happening by now.
dirtyhippie
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May 31st, 2006 at 08:50pm
I wouldn't have so much of a problem with it if it were legal. But what would make it legal is a series of WARRANTS for this kind of domestic surveillance. That way, terrorists aren't tipped off, and everything's, you know, Constitutional.

And the "if you're clean, why should you care?" theory holds NO water for me. It's like Niemoller's "First they came..." It's all a matter of principle for me. This type of conduct just strikes me as highly unethical. And this is the government that I am expected to look up to!
Matty.
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June 1st, 2006 at 09:43am
Valkyrie_Missile:
It's not like I am a terrorist trying to plot against the country, so it doesn't really matter. But!!! if the whole US is announcing this, won't terrorists just use some other form of communication? I'm sure they've heard that this is happening by now.

Yea lol its no use to them now
State Radio
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June 1st, 2006 at 05:18pm
Saiyan:
Valkyrie_Missile:
It's not like I am a terrorist trying to plot against the country, so it doesn't really matter. But!!! if the whole US is announcing this, won't terrorists just use some other form of communication? I'm sure they've heard that this is happening by now.

Yea lol its no use to them now


Anyways.
spill_no_sick
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spill_no_sick
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June 1st, 2006 at 08:40pm
Valkyrie_Missile:
Saiyan:
Valkyrie_Missile:
It's not like I am a terrorist trying to plot against the country, so it doesn't really matter. But!!! if the whole US is announcing this, won't terrorists just use some other form of communication? I'm sure they've heard that this is happening by now.

Yea lol its no use to them now


Anyways.
which is why they didn't bother with warrants and such in the first place.....everyone would have found out sooner rendering it more useless
State Radio
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State Radio
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June 1st, 2006 at 08:49pm
spill_no_sick:
Valkyrie_Missile:
Saiyan:
Valkyrie_Missile:
It's not like I am a terrorist trying to plot against the country, so it doesn't really matter. But!!! if the whole US is announcing this, won't terrorists just use some other form of communication? I'm sure they've heard that this is happening by now.

Yea lol its no use to them now


Anyways.
which is why they didn't bother with warrants and such in the first place.....everyone would have found out sooner rendering it more useless


Yes, but now everyone knows..
Matty.
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June 2nd, 2006 at 01:54am
Valkyrie_Missile:
spill_no_sick:
Valkyrie_Missile:
Saiyan:
Valkyrie_Missile:
It's not like I am a terrorist trying to plot against the country, so it doesn't really matter. But!!! if the whole US is announcing this, won't terrorists just use some other form of communication? I'm sure they've heard that this is happening by now.

Yea lol its no use to them now


Anyways.
which is why they didn't bother with warrants and such in the first place.....everyone would have found out sooner rendering it more useless


Yes, but now everyone knows..

I seriously couldnt have cared less, they were doing it to protect people not to take away their rights
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