Celibacy

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Matt Smith
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Mibba Blog
March 19th, 2007 at 03:00pm
With regards to priests and nuns.

Arguments for:
Jesus said that some people would be Celibate as part of the kingdom of God
Jesus wasn't married and preists are representatives of christ
If priests aren't married and don't have a family, they can be freely moved to other parishes without too much fuss.
It is a religious discipline.

Arguments against:
It is unnatural to be celibate
It is the will of god that people should marry and have children
Preists could understand the problems of married couples better if they were married
Jesus never said, anwhere in the gospel, that his apostles had to be celibate.

The Catholic Church requires that all preists be celibate. Many other churches don't require it.

*drumroll*
Should Priests and/or nuns be made to be celibate or not?
spill_no_sick
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March 19th, 2007 at 03:13pm
see, I'm Protestant
you know what that means?
I don't give a flying fuck if the Catholics are doing it wrong because they've BEEN doing it wrong
that's why Martin Luther is so famous
and if you look at the BIble it shows that Jesus was completely against those who lived based on more than just the Old Testament
why would he want Christians to follow man made rules instead of just the New Testament?
PaNcAkEs
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March 19th, 2007 at 03:45pm
i think that its their own personal choice
Misanthropist
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March 19th, 2007 at 04:28pm
Well, I've always thought Priest's being celibate kind of made sense in a way. They devote themselves to God and they're...I guess, a service to the people (not only that, but you don't see tons of people queing up to be a priest these days) so I think that being sexual shouldn't be an issue or an obstacle in the way of religion.

However, there are priests who are married and there are priests who choose a more disciplined route. I don't think it makes one priest better than the other, I would just have more respect for the priest who is celibate and focuses on the God he has chosen to serve.

I don't know if I fully explained that right...
worn-out astronaut.
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March 19th, 2007 at 05:00pm
Bloodraine:

*drumroll*
Should Priests be made to be celibate or not?
I would say no. I honestly think they could be much happier persons. As you mentioned Celibacy is not normal. They are in Celibacy because they need to only and completely love God. Frankly, I don't understand that. They certainly have higher devotion to God than other people, but is it wrong to love someone human with all your heart? I don't think it is and I don't think God would mind that. My neighbor was a priest and he met a woman, he fell in love and he has children now. He is a fulfilled person because not only does he have a family now, he is still in Church every day, does extra things for them and I don't think his love for God has decreased.

I could never live in Celibacy because I need love from someone I can feel and see. Priests only have that from God and I can respect that. But why couldn't they have it from someone else as well?

The only problem with what I am saying here is that love in some cases doesn't last forever, so you have to forgive my naive understanding of certain things. Divorce is not supported by the Church. So if they marry, they couldn't divorce if they wanted too. Maybe that could "affect their work", lead into worse sins, such as cheating your spouse. I mean, I know priests don't do that, but they are human beings after all. They obey the ten commandments more than a lot of people do, so marriage could cause breaking some of them. It all depends on the person.

But being a Catholic priest and living in Celibacy doesn't have to mean that they really do live in Celibacy, trust me. In my church there was a priest who had a wife, kids, got divorced and drove his mistress around in his Mercedes. File
Matt Smith
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Mibba Blog
March 19th, 2007 at 05:23pm
Dr. Cuddy:
But being a Catholic priest and living in Celibacy doesn't have to mean that they really do live in Celibacy, trust me. In my church there was a priest who had a wife, kids, got divorced and drove his mistress around in his Mercedes. File

I know xDD
There have been popes with sons before.

Hypothetically speaking, though, Catholicism doesn't allow married priests. At least, thats what the last pope believed.
rehabreject
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March 19th, 2007 at 05:25pm
Dr. Cuddy:
but is it wrong to love someone human with all your heart? I don't think it is and I don't think God would mind that.
Celibacy doesn't have anything to do with love, does it?
I mean, surely even the most stringent of churches wouldn't oppose a priest loving someone?
I think they're more worried about avoiding 'temptations of the flesh'.

Also, does loving someone with all your heart necessarily mean sex?
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March 19th, 2007 at 05:34pm
Bloodraine:
Dr. Cuddy:
But being a Catholic priest and living in Celibacy doesn't have to mean that they really do live in Celibacy, trust me. In my church there was a priest who had a wife, kids, got divorced and drove his mistress around in his Mercedes. File

I know xDD
There have been popes with sons before.

Hypothetically speaking, though, Catholicism doesn't allow married priests. At least, thats what the last pope believed.
And this pope today has confirmed he has no plan of changing that.

rehabreject:
Dr. Cuddy:
but is it wrong to love someone human with all your heart? I don't think it is and I don't think God would mind that.
Celibacy doesn't have anything to do with love, does it?
I mean, surely even the most stringent of churches wouldn't oppose a priest loving someone?
I think they're more worried about avoiding 'temptations of the flesh'.

Also, does loving someone with all your heart necessarily mean sex?
Well it has in a way. Temptations of the flesh could lead to love. And priests are suppose to have that only towards God.

A god point with the sex. If you love someone you would surely want to have sex with those person. I know I would. And its the only way you can reproduce if you are a guy.
Kurtni
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March 19th, 2007 at 06:00pm
Dr. Cuddy:


A god point with the sex. If you love someone you would surely want to have sex with those person. I know I would. And its the only way you can reproduce if you are a guy.

There is more than one kind of love though. I love my dad, but that sure as hell doesn't mean I want to have sex with him. And he could adopt if he wanted to, it wouldn't be reproducing but he'd still have the option of having children.

The Catholic faith to me, is just insanely ridiculous (not meant to be taken offensively by any Catholics, to be fair I feel that way about the majority of religions). I don't see how anyone can have faith in something that's suppose to represent a holy figure when it has man-made stipulations that people must follow, and that are evidently broken. What kind of priest would try to find loopholes in his own religion? If you're looking for a way out, like the priest that someone mentioned above with kids and a wife, you obviously don't support all aspects of your religion, so how can you follow it? But if I continue going on about why I dislike the Catholic faith I'd take this thread in an off topic direction.. Shifty

Anyways, I don't think it's wrong to require something like that. It isn't like they can let just anyone be a priest and if that faith feels it's needed, they have every right to make it mandatory. No one can force you to be a priest, so if you choose to go down that path you have to accept the things you have to do. If you have problems doing that maybe it shows that you're practicing a faith you don't have confidence in. I also think the accusations made saying that celibacy leads to priests becoming sexually abusive are just ridiculous. Catholic priests are suppose to have a relationship with God that isn't tainted by other things, and it isn't as if a marriage is effortless. And I don't think it really matters that lots of other faiths don't require it; Catholicism isn't those other religions. Like I stated earlier, if you find being celibate to be unnatural and you don't think the bible teaches that, perhaps you aren't practicing the religion that's right for you.
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March 19th, 2007 at 06:24pm
Centuries back, priests could get married, I'm not sure if it was required or what, but then the catholic church had to support the wives when the priests died so they stopped that.
Vanity
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March 20th, 2007 at 12:57am
I don't want to get too off topic with this but....

I don't think celibacy should be enforced. For one, it's not natural. Two, because I believe that everyone should be allowed to marry and have kids, regardless of sexuality, or what some high authority or book says. And three (please don't flame me for this, because it's only an opinionated theory), since catholic priests must use celibacy these days, maybe the fact that they are basically deprived of sex and physical relationships, is a reason that there are so many sex scandals relating to catholic priests. Now, it's only a theory, but....maybe if the priests were allowed to marry and have kids and be with a woman, maybe it would've saved a lot of kids from being molested or abused by priests.
And I know then you could bring up the fact that maybe the priests were just in fact attracted to children, and that being a priest and being married wouldn't have stopped them from preying on kids. And I understand that view. I DO. And I realize that not every catholic priest who is deprived of sex is actually longing for sex or dying to get laid and be physical.....It was just a theory. Sorry for getting off topic.
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March 20th, 2007 at 05:11am
Kurtni:

There is more than one kind of love though. I love my dad, but that sure as hell doesn't mean I want to have sex with him. And he could adopt if he wanted to, it wouldn't be reproducing but he'd still have the option of having children.

The Catholic faith to me, is just insanely ridiculous (not meant to be taken offensively by any Catholics, to be fair I feel that way about the majority of religions). I don't see how anyone can have faith in something that's suppose to represent a holy figure when it has man-made stipulations that people must follow, and that are evidently broken. What kind of priest would try to find loopholes in his own religion? If you're looking for a way out, like the priest that someone mentioned above with kids and a wife, you obviously don't support all aspects of your religion, so how can you follow it? But if I continue going on about why I dislike the Catholic faith I'd take this thread in an off topic direction.. Shifty

Anyways, I don't think it's wrong to require something like that. It isn't like they can let just anyone be a priest and if that faith feels it's needed, they have every right to make it mandatory. No one can force you to be a priest, so if you choose to go down that path you have to accept the things you have to do. If you have problems doing that maybe it shows that you're practicing a faith you don't have confidence in. I also think the accusations made saying that celibacy leads to priests becoming sexually abusive are just ridiculous. Catholic priests are suppose to have a relationship with God that isn't tainted by other things, and it isn't as if a marriage is effortless. And I don't think it really matters that lots of other faiths don't require it; Catholicism isn't those other religions. Like I stated earlier, if you find being celibate to be unnatural and you don't think the bible teaches that, perhaps you aren't practicing the religion that's right for you.
I know there is, but I was talking about love between a man and a woman that aren't related to each other.

I agree with the rest of your post. But its a bit stupid that before priests could get married, even some popes were married and now its highly forbidden. The problem with Catholicism is that it has a lot of "rules" to follow and I have never met a person that support all of that hundred percent. Even our priest in Religion class at church said that there are some flaws. Honestly, those flaws are all minor and not the ones most of the people think about, but he still doesn't support them.

Vanity:
I don't want to get too off topic with this but....

I don't think celibacy should be enforced. For one, it's not natural. Two, because I believe that everyone should be allowed to marry and have kids, regardless of sexuality, or what some high authority or book says. And three (please don't flame me for this, because it's only an opinionated theory), since catholic priests must use celibacy these days, maybe the fact that they are basically deprived of sex and physical relationships, is a reason that there are so many sex scandals relating to catholic priests. Now, it's only a theory, but....maybe if the priests were allowed to marry and have kids and be with a woman, maybe it would've saved a lot of kids from being molested or abused by priests.
And I know then you could bring up the fact that maybe the priests were just in fact attracted to children, and that being a priest and being married wouldn't have stopped them from preying on kids. And I understand that view. I DO. And I realize that not every catholic priest who is deprived of sex is actually longing for sex or dying to get laid and be physical.....It was just a theory. Sorry for getting off topic.
I highly doubt that the lack of women could lead into pedophilia and pederasty. Its just they could get caught more easily and its a bigger scandal since they are priests.
NeoSteph
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Mibba Blog
March 20th, 2007 at 03:48pm
Can we please not turn this into a lets bitch about catholics free for all.

Yes they do alot of silly things but so do other churches. I mean there's people dancing with snakes in America.

I went to a roman catholic school. we only used to meet the priest at special occasions but I do know about nuns, which is similar to monks, who become priests so Retard

The idea of celibacy is in the new testament for example Mary was pure because she was a virgin mother. Celibacy gives you a connection with god that is higher than sexual needs. A relationship between man and wife or partner is about comunication, respect and love.

You don't need to get your rocks off to love someone who is not a relative

Becoming a nun is joining a marriage to god, It takes a very strong faith to make that sacrifice but it's done for love not against it. Becoming celibate is like the other focus of being a nun

You give up wordly posessions and ungodly needs. They don't see sex as dirty. quite the opposites catholics love to reproduce. They see it as unnessecary in their field of work.
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March 20th, 2007 at 03:50pm
I think it's down to theirselves. Dno How they see the bible and stuff, they should live how it makes them happy..
Matt Smith
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March 20th, 2007 at 03:51pm
I edited the first post, so we can now discuss priests and nuns. Nuns entering convents are often required to take vows of chastity, poverty and obedience.

'kay, so my thoughts on this issue are.

Joining the priesthood or sisterhood is entirely voluntary. Its a voluntary life choice, nobody makes you. People do it to seek jesus, and devote their life to god. So basically, if you have a problem with the celibacy requirement, what are you doing signing up in the first place?
Join another branch of Christianity. There are thousands, and you're still worshipping the same God as part of the same faith anyway.

And on the priest matter.
Did you know that Deacons can marry?
For those of you who aren't ubereducated in Catholicism, a Deacon is the lowest of the three religious orders. Its a step below priests. What can a Deacon do?
-celebrate all sacraments (baptism, eucharist, marriage, funeral)
-take the mass, deliver a sermon etc.
-do basically everything a priest does, but they can't consecrate the bread and wine.

So basically, if you really do wanna get married, be a Deacon instead. The only thing you can't do is consecrate. Which allows for both marriage and celibacy, and I believe that priests should be made to be celibate.
Kurtni
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Mibba Blog
March 20th, 2007 at 05:22pm
Vanity:
I don't want to get too off topic with this but....

I don't think celibacy should be enforced. For one, it's not natural

Define "natural" for me please. Think
Vanity
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March 20th, 2007 at 07:19pm
Kurtni:
Define "natural" for me please. Think

Well, nature. It's human and animal nature to want to reproduce. Without it there wouldn't be life. It's human nature to seek companionship. And to me, to deprive someone or yourself a relationship or the right to have children for a higher authority or because some book or person says to, is just ludicrous. It's absolutely ludicrous to me. Why should it be bad now to marry and have kids when it wasn't way back when? Because some old dude says so now? Well, that just doesn't seem right that they can suddenly change such a rule as they please.
I know nobody is FORCING them to stay a priest or nun and be celibate. It's down to themselves and whether or not they can do without the need for sex and companionship. Because if a person can't handle it, they can always leave and do their thing.
And I know it's not up to me to define what's natural for everyone. I was just giving my two cents.
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March 20th, 2007 at 08:06pm
what's Celibacy?
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Mibba
March 20th, 2007 at 08:20pm
Diabolikal.:
what's Celibacy?

Abstaining from sexual practices.
Forever.
NeoSteph
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March 20th, 2007 at 09:49pm
Vanity:
Kurtni:
Define "natural" for me please. Think

Well, nature. It's human and animal nature to want to reproduce. Without it there wouldn't be life. It's human nature to seek companionship. And to me, to deprive someone or yourself a relationship or the right to have children for a higher authority or because some book or person says to, is just ludicrous. It's absolutely ludicrous to me. Why should it be bad now to marry and have kids when it wasn't way back when? Because some old dude says so now? Well, that just doesn't seem right that they can suddenly change such a rule as they please.
I know nobody is FORCING them to stay a priest or nun and be celibate. It's down to themselves and whether or not they can do without the need for sex and companionship. Because if a person can't handle it, they can always leave and do their thing.
And I know it's not up to me to define what's natural for everyone. I was just giving my two cents.


It's not just Nuns and priest who take vows of celibacy. it's a world wide practise. Drug and sex addicts stop because it can become a problem and it helps them to focus without worrying about sexual desires.


There's a difference between sex and a relationship.

''The Priesthood, Karl Rahner discusses his interpretation of the awesome mission of the priest.

"In a sense, he (a priest) is always on duty," said Karl Rahner. "In the light of this sociological aspect of his life, the priest must clearly understand that he belongs body and soul, with all that he is, to this church, to her task, to her mission, her work, her destiny, and he can never disassociate himself from these things." (Rahner, page 101.)
''



And just so everyone know celibacy isn't something that has just recently popped up in the catholic church. It has been law since 1139. There is also evidence to support celibacy dates back to the ancient civilisations.

He provides such examples as the yellow-capped Lamas of Tibet, the ascetic hermits of Egypt, the virgin priestesses of Thebes, the Astorte cult of Syria, the primitive worshipers of Dodona, the Vestal Virgins of ancient Rome, and the temple priests of the Aztecs.

My source is stated above. Nice book, read it sometime
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