Victim vs. Offender

Kurtni:

NeoSteph:

Rule 6: NO BLANK QUOTES, it's considered spam, if you agree with someone, then add to the discussion don't just repeat.

Reeead me

Sorry.

Anyway.
I blame this more on the offender.
There are laws, so they should be followed.
So by breaking these laws, the offender should get the blame.
And the victim should just be more cautious...

In some of these cases, girls go out on a night with their mates see a guy and get laid, but then realise that its not what. You have no idea what its like being accused of something you didn't do and the worse thing is everyone only sticks to the bad things and not the truth.

lyrical_mess:

Is it the girl's fault that someone decided to track her down and molest her? I highly doubt it. Even if a kid comes online and says "I live on 123 Lemonade Street. Come touch me.", what kind of person complies?

The offenders in the world need to learn a few things:

1. Respect the law. Its there for a reason.
2. Get help if you know you need it.

I agree its not always possible to force a potential offender into getting help, but the victim is in no way to blame if he/she cannot provide psychiatric help or convince the potential offender to get help. Fear is a powerful motive to keep one's mouth shut.

If anyone wishes to tell me we should not dictate our lives with fear, next time someone beats the crap out of you and says he'll do it again if you squeal, let's see if you decide to be brave.

But if she had the common sense not to give out her address, the molester wouldn't have known where to find her.

It's like me posting my social security and PIN numbers online, then complaining about getting robbed. I'm equally at fault for giving out the information.

No you're not. Because while your stupidity was your fault and you did play a role in whatever happened, you are not equally at fault. The offender (as offenders are) was a moral-less, sick person and decided to rob you.

Have you read Ella Enchanted? There's a passage in there. Sir Peter, Ella and some Earl are talking. Sir Peter says that bandits should be punished without reservation. He basically says that robbery is a crime that deserves to punished and the criminal should know the consequence of his actions. Ella asks about fraud. She asks if the punishment would be similar if one robbed through deception. Sir Peter replies that if he were such a fool to be decieved, he would deserve to be robbed. I don't remember if its Ella or the Earl, but someone counters it by saying that the bandit's victim deserved to be robbed because he was unable to defend himself properly, which is ridiculous.

I completely agree with Ella and the Earl.

lyrical_mess:

No you're not. Because while your stupidity was your fault and you did play a role in whatever happened, you are not equally at fault. The offender (as offenders are) was a moral-less, sick person and decided to rob you.

Have you read Ella Enchanted? There's a passage in there. Sir Peter, Ella and some Earl are talking. Sir Peter says that bandits should be punished without reservation. He basically says that robbery is a crime that deserves to punished and the criminal should know the consequence of his actions. Ella asks about fraud. She asks if the punishment would be similar if one robbed through deception. Sir Peter replies that if he were such a fool to be decieved, he would deserve to be robbed. I don't remember if its Ella or the Earl, but someone counters it by saying that the bandit's victim deserved to be robbed because he was unable to defend himself properly, which is ridiculous.

I completely agree with Ella and the Earl.

Not every robber is moral-less or depraved. Some people are driven to steal, because they feel they have no other option.

I think that everyone shares some fraction of responsibility in petty crimes. You wouldn't be robbed if you had better security/didn't leave your windows open/didn't leave your wallet lying about/didn't post your information where others could get at it. Just like the girls posting addresses online. Nothing good could come of that.

I agree with that point. Thinking a bit more about what you're doing, being a bit less absent minded, etc could prevent the crimes. And you may or may not have been partly responsible for what happened.

But by no means are the victim and the offender equally responsible. The victim's responsibilty for the crime is very very minimal.

schooldropout:

In some of these cases, girls go out on a night with their mates see a guy and get laid, but then realise that its not what. You have no idea what its like being accused of something you didn't do and the worse thing is everyone only sticks to the bad things and not the truth.

The propsect that your accounting happens less than 1 percent of the time of reported rape cases. whilst a staggering majority of 'real' rapes don't even get reported and even fewer see a conviction. So most of the time the truth doesn't get spoken

----

Obviously overall it's the offenders fault but in cases the victim had a part in their own downfall where they made the wrong judgement now this doesn't mean whatever attack on them was their own fault and regardless of who you are and how you live your life you don't deserve to be a victim but in this day and age we should be prepared and we should be cautious. For example if you don't lock your door night, obviously you don't want to be burgled but you should know better. Girls as young as 12 should know better than to walk home at night.

It is always the offenders fault but EVERYONE needs to take responcibility for their own safety.

lyrical_mess:

I agree with that point. Thinking a bit more about what you're doing, being a bit less absent minded, etc could prevent the crimes. And you may or may not have been partly responsible for what happened.

But by no means are the victim and the offender equally responsible. The victim's responsibilty for the crime is very very minimal.

That's pretty much what I mean. The criminal should never, ever have taken advantage of the situation, but it also shouldn't have been presented to him. Maybe the responsibility is something like, 70% - 30%, or something like that, in most petty crimes.

I think that there's responsibility and then there's blame, and those responsible (or not so in some cases) for their own lives aren't to blame.

Ol' Blue Eyes.:

lyrical_mess:

I agree with that point. Thinking a bit more about what you're doing, being a bit less absent minded, etc could prevent the crimes. And you may or may not have been partly responsible for what happened.

But by no means are the victim and the offender equally responsible. The victim's responsibilty for the crime is very very minimal.

That's pretty much what I mean. The criminal should never, ever have taken advantage of the situation, but it also shouldn't have been presented to him. Maybe the responsibility is something like, 70% - 30%, or something like that, in most petty crimes.

For petty crimes I'd say 80-20 but for serious crimes its more like 98-2. As Steph said, its the offender's fault but one needs to take responsibilty for one's own safety.

lyrical_mess:

Ol' Blue Eyes.:

lyrical_mess:

I agree with that point. Thinking a bit more about what you're doing, being a bit less absent minded, etc could prevent the crimes. And you may or may not have been partly responsible for what happened.

But by no means are the victim and the offender equally responsible. The victim's responsibilty for the crime is very very minimal.

That's pretty much what I mean. The criminal should never, ever have taken advantage of the situation, but it also shouldn't have been presented to him. Maybe the responsibility is something like, 70% - 30%, or something like that, in most petty crimes.

For petty crimes I'd say 80-20 but for serious crimes its more like 98-2. As Steph said, its the offender's fault but one needs to take responsibilty for one's own safety.

Of course when the crimes become more serious, like rape, serial killers, pedophilia/molestation etc, the victim's responsibility is like, .9999999999%.

The victim is not to blame. Why should, say, a victim of rape, be blamed just because she was a bit naive/stupid and met someone online?
That doesn't mean the rapist had to take advantage and rape her.
Just because a parent doesn't have their child on like, a leash, doesn't mean that a kidnapper has a sort of free opportunity to kidnap.

idk.
and the
"He wouldnt hit her if she didn't aggrivate him so much" view is ridiculous. How can anyone say that? Oh well "he wouldn't have killed her if she hadn't screamed"
That sort of argument is just ignorant and foolish.
The person that commits the crime is to blame, hardly ever the victim. In fact, I'm trying to think of an instence where I would believe the victim to blame.

There's times when people are responsible for their own deaths. For example, a man was crushed by a vending machine. However, he was trying to steal from it. So I'd say he's at fault.

lyrical_mess:

There's times when people are responsible for their own deaths. For example, a man was crushed by a vending machine. However, he was trying to steal from it. So I'd say he's at fault.

We are talking about victim/offender, though. the vending machine isn't really an offender as it's an inanimate object

Misanthropist:

lyrical_mess:

There's times when people are responsible for their own deaths. For example, a man was crushed by a vending machine. However, he was trying to steal from it. So I'd say he's at fault.

We are talking about victim/offender, though. the vending machine isn't really an offender as it's an inanimate object

And if this candy-machine incident had occured in America, whoever owned the candy machine would still end up having a lawsuit filed against them because we'their machine wasn't safe enough to steal from Sue-happy fools.

There was a lawsuit. [/offtopic]

lyrical_mess:

There was a lawsuit. [/offtopic]

typical

One Croatian judge said that a rape was equal to a handshake. And basically, he made fun off the raped girl and almost didn't convict the rapist. But the whole country went mad and he was all over the media so in the end he got fired, the rapist ended in jail and I think the girl got some money because she was verbally tortured by the judge.


... so no, I don't think its right to blame the victim. Especially if you are high-positioned.

Lupinator:

One Croatian judge said that a rape was equal to a handshake. And basically, he made fun off the raped girl and almost didn't convict the rapist. But the whole country went mad and he was all over the media so in the end he got fired, the rapist ended in jail and I think the girl got some money because she was physically tortured by the judge.


... so no, I don't think its right to blame the victim. Especially if you are high-positioned.

The judge physically tortured her?

That who circumstance is just wrong, though. How rape could ever be compared to a handshake, much less be thought equal of it is beyond me,

Misanthropist:

Lupinator:

One Croatian judge said that a rape was equal to a handshake. And basically, he made fun off the raped girl and almost didn't convict the rapist. But the whole country went mad and he was all over the media so in the end he got fired, the rapist ended in jail and I think the girl got some money because she was physically tortured by the judge.


... so no, I don't think its right to blame the victim. Especially if you are high-positioned.

The judge physically tortured her?

That who circumstance is just wrong, though. How rape could ever be compared to a handshake, much less be thought equal of it is beyond me,

........verbally. idk how you say it.