Victim vs. Offender

Lupinator:

........verbally. idk how you say it.

Mentally?
idk

Interesting topic.

There is no excuse for rape, murder, kidnap, or any other related crime. I don't even want to debate on this. It's completely absurd.

Victim, 1.an unfortunate person who suffers from some adverse circumstance 2. a person who is tricked or swindled.

Being a victim is hard enough, but blaming someone for becoming one? Please.

"If people didn't put themselves in difficult situations, there would be less murders."
That made me laugh actually.
"Hey I feel like I'm going to get killed today. Maybe I should stay home and not put myself in a difficult situation "
A lot of the time murderers pick randoms, anyway.

"If people had higher security, they wouldn't be robbed."

thats is bullshit because not everyone can afford the best technology for security

the rest makes no sense either, its the Offenders fault because they shouldnt do that stuff.

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

It completely depends on the situation.

If a woman goes to a bar and acts like a slut then lets some random guy she met five minutes ago tamper with her drink, how much of a victim is she when a rape drug is put into her drink?

So if a girl "acts like a slut" then its ok for you to drug her? O_O

I don't care what anyone says, when someone is committing an offense, sexual or otherwise, they are breaking the law and they most likely know that they are breaking the law.

And there is no excuse for breaking the law, unless you are in fact so totally clinically insane that you have no clue what you're doing, but then...why are you out in clubs and stuff anyway?

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

Kurtni:

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

It completely depends on the situation.

If a woman goes to a bar and acts like a slut then lets some random guy she met five minutes ago tamper with her drink, how much of a victim is she when a rape drug is put into her drink?

So if a girl "acts like a slut" then its ok for you to drug her? O_O

That is not what I said.

What I said is that if a woman is acting like a slut and lets other people tamper with her drinks, she is not as innocent as a woman who is walking home from work and gets jumped and raped.

People put themselves into stupid situations.

Aha, but what if the woman walking home from work was a slut?
Or what if an innocent woman got her drinks tampered with?

YEAH.

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

That is not what I said.

What I said is that if a woman is acting like a slut and lets other people tamper with her drinks, she is not as innocent as a woman who is walking home from work and gets jumped and raped.

People put themselves into stupid situations.

I highly doubt sexual predators look out for "sluts" in particular. Completely quiet and girl who mind their own buisness can be attacked as well.

How exactly do you let someone tamper with your drink?

And if someone wa truely a "slut" then wouldn't the guy just ask her to sleep with him? And if she was truely a "slut" then wouldn't she just sleep with anyone anyway?

Some girls have the stuff to flaunt. I don't see why guys who can't keep their hands to themselves and see that there are lines that shouldn't be crossed should stop women being able to act confidently in their body.

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

Kurtni:

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

It completely depends on the situation.

If a woman goes to a bar and acts like a slut then lets some random guy she met five minutes ago tamper with her drink, how much of a victim is she when a rape drug is put into her drink?

So if a girl "acts like a slut" then its ok for you to drug her? O_O

That is not what I said.

What I said is that if a woman is acting like a slut and lets other people tamper with her drinks, she is not as innocent as a woman who is walking home from work and gets jumped and raped.

People put themselves into stupid situations.

Do you honestly think women let people tamper with their drinks? O_O Seriously, how many people do you think go into a bar and say "Hey, will someone slip a date rape pill into this glass? "
No one does that, so don't try the "they let it happen" routine, it's old. No one ever said they were behaving responsibly or that their attack wasn't possibly preventable. But it doesn't matter if a girl walks around naked in a dark alley while intoxicated, that doesn't give someone the right of way to take advantage of her.

Being irresponsible and being at fault are not the same thing.

I don't care how irresponsible, uncareful or "slutty" she is.That doesn't give someone the green light to take advantage of her. She's still a human being.

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

"How exactly do you let someone tamper with your drink?"
Easily.
You put your drink down and turn away. Someone puts a date rape drug in there.
You let somebody else get you a drink. They slip a date rape drug in there.
I know people personally that has had that happen to them.

There's a difference between being confident in your body and acting like a slut.
I wear fairly tight shirts and my jeans are fitted.
I am confident in my body.
There's a HUGE difference between that and putting on a bra and booty shorts and going to a club.

Just because you look away from your drink doesn't mean you're letting someone tamper with your drink. You should feel safe in the knowledge that you can leave a drink for a few seconds and it won't get drugged. Why is it the woman's fault that she can't be able to leave a drink alone without someone tampering with it just because some men think it's okay?

Why shouldn't women be allowed to act like sluts though? Why is it alright for men to act like players and not get raped? Why is it the woman's fault that some men can't tell the difference between a flirt and when a girl blatantly says "no."?

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

I happen to know women let people tamper with their drinks. They don't say "drug me," but they will let people get them drinks, etc..., and that is dangerous.

I didn't say anybody lets it happen. I said people put themselves in stupid, dangerous situations. A thirteen year old girl who sneaks into a bar and lets some shady older guy get her a drink put herself into a stupid, dangerous situation. Plain and simple.
Does that make it okay to harm another human being? Of course not. Never. However, victims of rapings and "random" murders are rarely innocent victims. Did they deserve to be raped? No! Did they deserve to be killed? Of course not! Did they put themselves in a dangerous situation? Quite possible.

So does that make it their fault?

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations. People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations. People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations. People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations. People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations.
Hopefully I will not have to repeat myself again.

Hopefully you will realize this is about debating, not about trying to make others look stupid.

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

I will say again:
It is not the victims fault. It is not the victims fault. It is not the victims fault. It is not the victims fault.
People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations. People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations. People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations. People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations. People put themselves in stupid and dangerous situations.
Hopefully I will not have to repeat myself again.

There is no need to talk down to me, this is a disscussion. You raise points, and I retaliate against them.

I do not think that a person should be judged on how much of a victim they are. If they do something out of their own fault, like copying jackass stunts and ending up hurting themselves, then yes, they did a stupid thing, but if someone goes out of their way to hurt someone else, then the victim should not have to prove how much of a victim they are.

I was just curious as to what people thought about the teacher/student "affair" thing. Most people would say that the student is the victim, but what if they consented?

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

It does not change the fact that people put themselves into dangerous and stupid situations.

So I was discussing this with a friend and she told me a story.

A girl from her high school was getting the same bus every day for years. One day she was standing at the bus stop like any other day waiting for the bus, a guy was standing nearby waiting as well along with other people at the bus stop. Then suddenly he turned around a hit her in the face. Smashed her nose and mouth.

I guess she's just stupid enough to not have known it was stupid to wait for a bus.

Isn't it stupid of us to get into planes when we know they might crash? Or cross the road with all those cars driving around? Or get out on the street when a random bullet that missed its originally intended target could kill us?

The only dangerous situation we put ourselves into is life.

Seriously, if you don't want to "keep repeating yourself" just change the gear then. Because what you're saying is kind of ridiculous.

ColleenStarship:

I was just curious as to what people thought about the teacher/student "affair" thing. Most people would say that the student is the victim, but what if they consented?

A teacher is a person of authority if you see someone 5 days a weeks for hours on end you to certain degree shapen their mind and outlook on life so therefore you could encourage a child to act in a certain way, even if they are older than 16 and legally allowed to have sex it is still to a certain degree statutory rape because your in the position to groom.


Its why all teacher have to have CRB checks

ColleenStarship:

I was just curious as to what people thought about the teacher/student "affair" thing. Most people would say that the student is the victim, but what if they consented?

I've heard a couple stories of teachers who have waited until said student graduated to start relationships, but it was still frowned upon.

In my opinion, if both teacher and student want to pursue a relationship, not just have a few good times in the janitor's closet, I don't find much fault. Even if the teacher was older, people have relationships with others that are twice, sometimes even three times their age all the time. I don't think that it should be so taboo.

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

As I've already said, no.

Please stop asking me to repeat myself.
^^That is not talking down to anybody or making anybody look stupid. I have no idea where those accusations came from.

Actually you already said...

Quote

It completely depends on the situation.

So, if it depends on the situation that would imply that in some instances it is the victims fault, and in others it isn't. No one is asking you to repeat yourself, but it's hard to discuss something with someone when they aren't clear about how they feel.

yeah i agree with you! authority blind the people and they order you to think like them, so you're a victim---- but you don't have to listen to them!

xXxAndreaIsCoolxXx:

If it would imply something to you, that isn't my fault. I can't change how you percieve things I say, and I can't change how you define my words. If you see what I say as something it isn't, then I can't change that.

..it isn't to me... that is what that phrase would mean to anyone who speaks English. if you didn't mean that, fair enough, but don't make it out like my comprehension skills are lacking.

It completely depends on the situation
it- A pronoun taking the place of the subject. You didn't define the subject, but for the purpose of this thread the subject is if the victim is at fault, or if the offender is.

de·pend /dɪˈ pɛnd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-pend] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used without object)
to be conditioned or contingent (usually fol. by on or upon): His success here depends upon effort and ability.

Now, as I stated before, you used the word depend meaning that the who the blame is placed on is conditioned on the situation.

sit·u·a·tion /ˌsɪtʃuˈeɪʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[sich-oo-ey-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
the state of affairs; combination of circumstances: The present international situation is dangerous


So, reguardless of what you meant to say, you said...

"Who the blame is placed on is conditioned by the state of affairs and combination of circumstances"