Someone said earlier they were glad that the auther used the term "pro-abortion" and I object against the term very strongly...
"Pro-Abortion" brings to mind someone who says "GO GET PREGNANT NOW! So you can have an abortion" ... "DON'T USE A CONDOM so you can have an abortion"
I don't think anyone is going around screaming and cheering about how wonderful abortions are.
I agree.. that If you can.. you are in the right situation in life.. financially.. mentally... physically.. and an appropriate age (as for as your moral standpoint goes).. than you should have the baby... Whether you keep it or put it up for abortion.. thats up to you.
However.. if you are not in the right situation.. financially.. mentally.. physically.. and an inappropriate age... and by having an abortion.. you personally think it is best for you... than that is probably the best thing for you to do.
Thats why I prefer the term "Pro-Choice."
If I were to have get pregnant now.. I would have an abortion.
That's where the brainwashing comes in. It isn't "pro-choice". You made your choice already and ended up pregnant. For every action, there is, or in the case of abortion, should be a reaction, or a consequence. You don't want them to have a choice, what you do want is for them to not have a consequence.
And the whole thing about not having money, or it's the wrong time, who cares? Adoption, Let someone who cares take care of the kid, thats no reason to murder it. As for the Age, you're old enough to have sex, evidently. So then you need to be prepared for the possibler consequences that come along with it.
No One likes the idea of not having a choice, or taking away someone's right to make choices, but thats exactly what abortion does. it Kills developing babies before they get a chance at life, did they ask to be aborted? no, they never had a say in anything, because they can't have a say. Thats no reason they should be murdered. Abortion isn't "pro-choice", quit sugar coating everything. Abortion is pro-abortion, thats it. It isnt about making a choice, it's about not being able to deal with consequences.
And do you have a source for that statistic? I doubt it.
So you're saying just because there is extra, we have the right to kill off others? Thats terrible logic.
I do have a source. http://www.adoption.ca/
What is gonna happen if abortion is outlawed? Yeah, they'll force women to give birth, but they can't force them to raise them. If they all put their children up for adoption, what is gonna happen? There is already too many kids waiting to be adopted. Oh yeah ,let's force women to give birth to any children they are pregnant with under any circumstances, so that she'll put it up for adoption like thousands are gonna do. Let's all pile children up in centers.
And how have I ignored the rest of your post? You just said once more that ''if you have sex be ready for a baby'' wich we already talked enough on the other page, that international adoption is more complicated than I make it out to be and the classic conclusion of ''it is murder''. But you, did you answer my question on the other page? If you think abortion is murder, why do you think it's ok for rape? Murder is murder, it shouldn't matter how the baby was conceived.
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that's what I mean by brainwashed
you think that women don't have a choice
action = consiquence
you believe in anti-consiquence, not pro-choice
they had the choice not to get banged up in the first place
but they had unprotected sex, that created life, and taking away a life for the pleasure of sex is sick
here's how it should be: (I'll just add, "in my opinion" because some people guess that my post affects the actual world and go crazy over it)
abortion should be outlawed
if the person claims they were raped (since it takes more than nine months to decide) then they can undergo an abortion, if the offender is found innocent of the charge of rape then the woman goes to jail for first degree murder and purgery
they had a choice, they could have not had unprotected sex
If you think that I am brainwashed because I believe they should have the choice of abortion or not, I could say you were brainwashed to believe that it's wrong. And why anti-consequence? The consequence is that you're pregnant, so you have the choice between raising the kid, give it for adoption or abortion. I am not pro-abortion, I don't think every woman who gets pregnant should abort, I am pro-choice because if she wants an abortion, she should be able to get one just like any medical procedure. They had the choice of not getting banged up? Every woman has her reasons and different circumstances, you aren't in her situation, you don't know her nor do you know what happened, so it's just not categorizing by saying ''she had unprotected sex and fucked with anyone, she should face the consequences''.
And I don't think than in any first world countries a woman is gonna go in jail for first degree murder because she had an abortion. Not in a liberal country like mine anyway. By the way,some women get raped under drugs so they couldn't identify who raped them and probably not even remember what happened, they shouldn't have the baby for that (rape) and they definitely shouldn't go in jail for first degree murder.
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Exactly. "pro-choice" is so sugarcoated. Who would want to take away someones right to make choices for themselves? No one would without good reason, but thats what abortion does. The baby being aborted didn't choose to be, it never even had an option to choose. Aside for abortion being murder, it basically says having unprotected Sex is ok, because you can always do away with the consequence, and that is so sick and wrong, that you can take away another life because of your mistake.
Fetuses can't make that choice because they don't have opinions or feelings. They aren't even self-aware. And there is no law that says fetuses have rights. I don't count a miscarriage a death, so for me abortion will never be murder.
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not every one can just pop over to there local third world country and adopt a child you know, women should be prepared that if they have un protected sex then the chances are they will have a baby nine months later, there are lots and lots of forms of contracetpions, in a lot of ways i dont belive that you should have an abortion if the child is sick either because nothing is 100% until the child is here,
yes the injection thing is interesting, you have the injection every 3 months and then you dont have any periods, but it realises all the hormones that your body needs, oh yeah and they inject the needle in your bum cheek and it hurts.
I still think I'd have an abortion if they told me my child was sick, well depends on the sickness. I wouldn't abort for a silly disease, but maybe if they told me he had an arm and a leg missing, not a lot of chance to survive etc..., I wouldn't want to give birth to a child who would just suffer.
They inject in your but cheek?? Ouuuch.
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That's where the brainwashing comes in. It isn't "pro-choice". You made your choice already and ended up pregnant. For every action, there is, or in the case of abortion, should be a reaction, or a consequence. You don't want them to have a choice, what you do want is for them to not have a consequence.
Why the hell is being pro-choice is linked with you being ''brainwashed''? It's an opinion.
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And the whole thing about not having money, or it's the wrong time, who cares? Adoption, Let someone who cares take care of the kid, thats no reason to murder it. As for the Age, you're old enough to have sex, evidently. So then you need to be prepared for the possibler consequences that come along with it.
Who cares? The girl who is pregnant and can't afford to carry the baby cares.
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No One likes the idea of not having a choice, or taking away someone's right to make choices, but thats exactly what abortion does. it Kills developing babies before they get a chance at life, did they ask to be aborted? no, they never had a say in anything, because they can't have a say. Thats no reason they should be murdered. Abortion isn't "pro-choice", quit sugar coating everything. Abortion is pro-abortion, thats it. It isnt about making a choice, it's about not being able to deal with consequences.
It's not sugar coating. You're pregnant. Either adoption, raising the kid or abortion. You have the choice between adoption or raising the kid. That's a ''choice''. With abortion, it just adds another option. It's still a choice. Abortion, to me, is dealing with consequences, in the same level as raising the kid or giving it up for adoption.
Thanks Diabolique par Proxy.
Looong post.
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134
July 29th, 2006 at 11:14am
Apocalypse:
Fetuses can't make that choice because they don't have opinions or feelings. They aren't even self-aware. And there is no law that says fetuses have rights. I don't count a miscarriage a death, so for me abortion will never be murder.
Christ on a bike, how do you know that?
Thats right. You don't.
A foetus is the same as a baby, it just hasn't been born yet. You wouldn't have the guts to kill a baby, but you have the guts to kill a foetus?.
Ok, Im not going to quote that big long mess.
but anyways...
The link you posted took us to the home page of a website, and Im not looking through all that for a made-up statistic that probably doesnt exist.
Whats the difference between rape and any other abortion? Rape, the victim had no choice. It wasn'[t their fault they ended up pregnant, and the emotional scars that leaves can sometimes not be dealt with, let alone having the attackers child. I'd thats thats very differnet from having consenting sex.
And yes, you are very brainwashed. You don't want "pro-choice", you want no consequence. Getting pregnant is not the whole consequence, having a child is. She already made her choice when she had sex and got pregnant, there is your "pro-choice" part. What you now want, is for there to be no consequences for her actions, and because of that, because of her mistake, someone else now loses their life. I find that to be pretty demented that because you screw up, you can take someone elses life away.
And so you really think the only way rapists are idetified is by line upd and visual evidence? No. Genetics. With rape kits, they can get the Dna of whoever raped her. Visual evidence isn't present alot of times. If she took the drugs on her own, I really have no sympathy for her, if the attacker forced her to take them, thats different entirely. genetic evidence is what plays the most signifigant role in evidence.
A miscarriage is a natural process, abortion isnt.And what you said about fetuses is exactly right, they can't make choices, they aren't aware. But they are alive and developing to that point. a one year old has no opinion and can't decide things for themselves, is it ok to murder them too becuase you dont want to have to take care of them? no, why should abortion be any different?
They wouldnt know about your child missing limbs until it was too late for an abortion, they can;t tell things like that early on. Most medical things like won't be known in time.(and that is a pretty sick reason to have an abortion. People can lead perfectly ok lives with no limbs, and you would muder them just because they are not perfect?)
Once again, the money thing. If you put your baby up for adoption, all your medical exspenses will be cared for by the governmnet. There is programs specifically for that. They money excuse is ridiculous.
And you last paragraph. Adoption and rasing the kid, those both involve life and living. Abortion involves murder, it is murder. The wrongful killing of something alive is murder. Murder should never be an option. It isnt a choice for anything else and it shouldnt be a choice when it involves developing babies.
Lucifers Angel King For A Couple Of Days Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 4751
July 29th, 2006 at 02:03pm
Bloodraine:
Apocalypse:
Fetuses can't make that choice because they don't have opinions or feelings. They aren't even self-aware. And there is no law that says fetuses have rights. [b]I don't count a miscarriage a death, so for me abortion will never be murder.
[/b]
Christ on a bike, how do you know that?
Thats right. You don't.
A foetus is the same as a baby, it just hasn't been born yet. You wouldn't have the guts to kill a baby, but you have the guts to kill a foetus?.
you dont count miscarriage has a death, then go through it, be the woman who carried a child for so long and then looses it, you cant say if its death or not until you have been through it and only then can you say what you did. Argh that has made me so angry, ok what about this example, a woman carries a child for 6 months then she bleeds and she miscarries, and when the child comes out it is old enough to (if lived) to breath and cry, is that a deatn because it sure has hell bloody well seems like it to me.
when you miscarry a child you are left fealing empty and you have thoughts like you did somthing wrong, and some women dont get over that yes i have lost children (4 in fact) so i know it is death,
asthenia. Falling In Love With The Board Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 8632
July 29th, 2006 at 09:12pm
Apocalypse:
It's not sugar coating. You're pregnant. Either adoption, raising the kid or abortion. You have the choice between adoption or raising the kid. That's a ''choice''. With abortion, it just adds another option. It's still a choice. Abortion, to me, is dealing with consequences, in the same level as raising the kid or giving it up for adoption.
Thanks Diabolique par Proxy.
Looong post.
Abortion isn't dealing with the consequence of unprotected sex, it's eliminating it.
Lucifers Angel King For A Couple Of Days Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 4751
July 30th, 2006 at 02:43pm
katie's not grey:
Apocalypse:
It's not sugar coating. You're pregnant. Either adoption, raising the kid or abortion. You have the choice between adoption or raising the kid. That's a ''choice''. With abortion, it just adds another option. It's still a choice. Abortion, to me, is dealing with consequences, in the same level as raising the kid or giving it up for adoption.
Thanks Diabolique par Proxy.
Looong post.
Abortion isn't dealing with the consequence of unprotected sex, it's eliminating it.
What I want to know is if the government can't trust us with a choice, how can they trust us with a child? (When I say 'us' I mean women). I know this is about morals but I just can't stand it when men tell women what to do with their bodies. I saw this one stat and I don't know if it's real or not but it seems like it would be but it was like "77% of the 'pro-life' leaders are men, 100% of them will never be pregnant." I just hate how the government feels they need to step in and tell a woman what to do with her body.
What I want to know is if the government can't trust us with a choice, how can they trust us with a child? (When I say 'us' I mean women). I know this is about morals but I just can't stand it when men tell women what to do with their bodies. I saw this one stat and I don't know if it's real or not but it seems like it would be but it was like "77% of the 'pro-life' leaders are men, 100% of them will never be pregnant." I just hate how the government feels they need to step in and tell a woman what to do with her body.
Men? Im a girl and I am Anti-abortion, and I refuse to word it any other way. Pro Choice, anti choice, thats all stupid brainwashing. No one forces you to have sex and become pregnant. A future baby should no lose it's life because of your mistake.
The whole sexist arguement is stupid. Women and Men have equal voting rights, there for it makes there opinions equal. It isnt about gender, if you're prolife, you feel abortion is wrong, it's murder. You gender doesnt effect that.
Lucifers Angel King For A Couple Of Days Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 4751
August 1st, 2006 at 04:01pm
I_worship_tre_Cool:
I'm So Bored With the USA:
What I want to know is if the government can't trust us with a choice, how can they trust us with a child? (When I say 'us' I mean women). I know this is about morals but I just can't stand it when men tell women what to do with their bodies. I saw this one stat and I don't know if it's real or not but it seems like it would be but it was like "77% of the 'pro-life' leaders are men, 100% of them will never be pregnant." I just hate how the government feels they need to step in and tell a woman what to do with her body.
Men? Im a girl and I am Anti-abortion, and I refuse to word it any other way. Pro Choice, anti choice, thats all stupid brainwashing. No one forces you to have sex and become pregnant. A future baby should no lose it's life because of your mistake.
The whole sexist arguement is stupid. Women and Men have equal voting rights, there for it makes there opinions equal. It isnt about gender, if you're prolife, you feel abortion is wrong, it's murder. You gender doesnt effect that.
actaully it is mostly women who are against abortion, but like tre_cool_is_god said voting statisics are not what we are talking abiut,
ANYTHING that could grow to be a chiled and then an adul surley has the right to life just like we do, i would even go has far to say that if your pregnant and you loose the child because some one has beaten you up then they should go to prison.
spill_no_sick Falling In Love With The Board Age: 31 Gender: - Posts: 8588
August 1st, 2006 at 05:32pm
I do find it ironic that thoes who are "pro-life" are the ones wanting innocent babies to be murdered in order to make irresponsible people's (that includes the father) life to be more convinient
oh yeah, how about some "pro-life" person reads and takes on I_worship_tre_cool's post
it's the second one on page 40 and covers like...everything
I do find it ironic that thoes who are "pro-life" are the ones wanting innocent babies to be murdered in order to make irresponsible people's (that includes the father) life to be more convinient
oh yeah, how about some "pro-life" person reads and takes on I_worship_tre_cool's post
it's the second one on page 40 and covers like...everything
Wait, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought pro-life were the people against abortion? And pro-choice were the people for it.
spill_no_sick Falling In Love With The Board Age: 31 Gender: - Posts: 8588
August 1st, 2006 at 07:24pm
[QUOTE="Iyou're right, but whatever
the point is, stick to pro/anti-abortion
let's put it this way
don't sugarcoat bullshit, there may be a tasty sugarcoating, but you're still eating bullshit
I am everything against abortion. I think its wrong and that if you are going to have sex, thats your choice, but would you really have the guts to kill a fetus? its like killing a baby, and im sure you wouldnt want to kill a baby.
regardless of what other people say , i still think the option for abortion should be there for women
Alright, this thread is here to state why you feel that way, debate. Please do that.
i did i said there should be the option
saying no to sex (IMO) won't help much, people are gonna have regardless of their age ect. some women don't want a kid (adoption , i know) and some can't handle/can't carry around a baby for 9 months. what if they had something really important that called for some thing where you couldn't be pregnant lets say you had to wear something or do something extremely physical. To some a job is more important then having a child (at that point in their life) and like i said, you can't just not have sex. even if you try your best to make sure he wears a condom you take birth control the whole thing, accidents happen. I don't think people
she have to deal with something that they don't want until they are ready, and having sex does not mean you are ready for a child. it's their choice , their business not mine.
Lucifers Angel King For A Couple Of Days Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 4751
August 3rd, 2006 at 03:51pm
Viva La Stupid:
I_worship_tre_Cool:
Viva La Stupid:
regardless of what other people say , i still think the option for abortion should be there for women
Alright, this thread is here to state why you feel that way, debate. Please do that.
i did i said there should be the option
saying no to sex (IMO) won't help much, people are gonna have regardless of their age ect. some women don't want a kid (adoption , i know) and some can't handle/can't carry around a baby for 9 months. what if they had something really important that called for some thing where you couldn't be pregnant lets say you had to wear something or do something extremely physical. To some a job is more important then having a child (at that point in their life) and like i said, you can't just not have sex. even if you try your best to make sure he wears a condom you take birth control the whole thing, accidents happen. I don't think people
she have to deal with something that they don't want until they are ready, and having sex does not mean you are ready for a child. it's their choice , their business not mine.
i knwo you said to some people, but i would like to tell you what i did when i fell for my eldest child, i was running a bar lugging around heavy barrels of lagers and making sure everything was set for the evening ahead, and when i found out about my pregnancy i gave my job up, in fact i was given the paper work to do, so if women dont want children because they are in a demanding job then perhaos they should use protection when having sex,
like i said before, anything that has the chance to grow into a living child/adult should have that right, there is more at stake here than the perants wanting a good job and lifestyle.
Lucifers Angel King For A Couple Of Days Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 4751
August 3rd, 2006 at 04:05pm
Fifty babies a year are alive after abortion
Lois Rogers
A GOVERNMENT agency is launching an inquiry into doctors’ reports that up to 50 babies a year are born alive after botched National Health Service abortions.
The investigation, by the Confidential Enquiry into Maternal and Child Health (CEMACH), comes amid growing unease among clinicians over a legal ambiguity that could see them being charged with infanticide.
The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, which regulates methods of abortion, has also mounted its own investigation.
Its guidelines say that babies aborted after more than 21 weeks and six days of gestation should have their hearts stopped by an injection of potassium chloride before being delivered. In practice, few doctors are willing or able to perform the delicate procedure.
For the abortion of younger foetuses, labour is induced by drugs in the expectation that the infant will not survive the birth process. Guidelines say that doctors should ensure that the drugs they use prevent such babies being alive at birth.
In practice, according to Stuart Campbell, former professor of obstetrics and gynaecology at St George’s hospital, London, a number do survive.
“They can be born breathing and crying at 19 weeks’ gestation,” he said. “I am not anti-abortion, but as far as I am concerned this is sub-standard medicine.”
The number of terminations carried out in the 18th week of pregnancy or later has risen from 5,166 in 1994 to 7,432 last year. Prenatal diagnosis for conditions such as Down’s syndrome is increasing and foetuses with the condition are routinely aborted, even though many might be capable of leading fulfilling lives. In the past decade, doctors’ skill in saving the lives of premature babies has improved radically: at least 70%-80% of babies in their 23rd or 24th week of gestation now survive long-term.
Abortion on demand is allowed in Britain up to 24 weeks ” more than halfway through a normal pregnancy and the highest legal limit for such terminations in Europe. France and Germany permit “social” abortions only up to the 10th and 12th weeks respectively.
Doctors are increasingly uneasy about aborting babies who could be born alive. “If viability is the basis on which they set the 24-week limit for abortion, then the simplest answer is to change the law and reduce the upper limit to 18 weeks,” said Campbell, who last year published a book showing images of foetuses’ facial expressions and “walking” movements taken with a form of 3-D ultrasound.
The Department of Health was alerted three months ago to the issue of babies surviving failed terminations. In August clinicians in Manchester published an analysis of 31 such babies born in northwest England between 1996 and 2001.
“If a baby is born alive following a failed abortion and then dies (because of lack of care), you could potentially be charged with murder,” said Shantala Vadeyar, a consultant obstetrician at South Manchester University Hospitals NHS Trust, who led the study.
A systematic investigation of data collected through the CEMACH indicated that there are at least 50 cases a year nationwide in which babies survive abortion attempts.
“First sight of our data suggests this is happening,” said Shona Golightly, the agency’s research director. She said official confirmation of the figures would be available next year.
It is not known how many babies who survive attempted abortions go on to live into adulthood.
Paul Clarke, a neonatal intensive care specialist in Norwich, has treated a boy born at 24 weeks after three failed abortion attempts. The mother decided to keep the child, who is now two years old but is suffering what doctors call “significant ongoing medical problems”.
“The survival of this child was not recorded in any official statistics,” Clarke said. “There is nothing at the moment to force abortion practitioners to account for their failures.”
The issue will be highlighted by Gianna Jessen, 28, who survived an attempt to abort her. She is to speak at a parliamentary meeting on December 6 organised by the Alive and Kicking campaign, which is lobbying for a reduction of the abortion limit to 18 weeks.
Jessen, a musician from Nashville, Tennessee, was left with cerebral palsy but is to run in the London marathon next April to raise funds for fellow sufferers.
“If abortion is about women’s rights, then what were my rights?” she asked.
“If people are going to talk about abortion, then it’s important for them to know that these are babies that can be born alive and survive.”
regardless of what other people say , i still think the option for abortion should be there for women
Alright, this thread is here to state why you feel that way, debate. Please do that.
i did i said there should be the option
saying no to sex (IMO) won't help much, people are gonna have regardless of their age ect. some women don't want a kid (adoption , i know) and some can't handle/can't carry around a baby for 9 months. what if they had something really important that called for some thing where you couldn't be pregnant lets say you had to wear something or do something extremely physical. To some a job is more important then having a child (at that point in their life) and like i said, you can't just not have sex. even if you try your best to make sure he wears a condom you take birth control the whole thing, accidents happen. I don't think people
she have to deal with something that they don't want until they are ready, and having sex does not mean you are ready for a child. it's their choice , their business not mine.
i knwo you said to some people, but i would like to tell you what i did when i fell for my eldest child, i was running a bar lugging around heavy barrels of lagers and making sure everything was set for the evening ahead, and when i found out about my pregnancy i gave my job up, in fact i was given the paper work to do, so if women dont want children because they are in a demanding job then perhaos they should use protection when having sex,
like i said before, anything that has the chance to grow into a living child/adult should have that right, there is more at stake here than the perants wanting a good job and lifestyle.
but then it says people take percautions and it still happens
all i just think
its THEIR decision
its THEIR choice to have sex AND whether or not they want the baby
its NONE of MY or anyone else's business
