[Insert abortion here]

Anji:

This is quite a twist to the 'pro-choice' statements you've given before.

Favoring choice is one thing deciding or having a say over someone else’s persona - life - body - mind is a different matter all together. Specially if your "opinion" bears enough weight to dissuade the other person, that's IMPOSITION and manipulation, not "choice".
Why people have trouble distinguishing the difference between “choice” and “opinion”?
Of course we are all entitled to our opinions, including men having their views on abortion, problem is that more often than not people uses opinions as weapons to bully others into submission.
We have the right make decisions over ourselves, when it involves somebody else, we must step aside and allow the other person to make the call, and it's not for you to say that whatever they choose is right or wrong even when you don't agree with their decisions, but yeah it's your right to disagree as long as that disagreement don't suppress and/or repress someone else’s "free will".

I see that they're not teaching basic ethical notions to kids at school (no news for me there!)

I love how men are so 'unimportant' and can't decide anything about abortions, yet most women are happy enough to squeeze child benefits out of a man. How disgusting.

PentatonicA:

Anji:

This is quite a twist to the 'pro-choice' statements you've given before.

Favoring choice is one thing deciding or having a say over someone else’s persona - life - body - mind is a different matter all together. Specially if your "opinion" bears enough weight to dissuade the other person, that's IMPOSITION and manipulation, not "choice".
Why people have trouble distinguishing the difference between “choice” and “opinion”?
Of course we are all entitled to our opinions, including men having their views on abortion, problem is that more often than not people uses opinions as weapons to bully others into submission.
We have the right make decisions over ourselves, when it involves somebody else, we must step aside and allow the other person to make the call, and it's not for you to say that whatever they choose is right or wrong even when you don't agree with their decisions, but yeah it's your right to disagree as long as that disagreement don't suppress and/or repress someone else’s "free will".

I see that they're not teaching basic ethical notions to kids at school (no news for me there!)

I don't go to school anymore, I wouldn't know.

Stepping aside from the pro-choice stuff, the father has no choice in whether or not his child gets to live? Yeah, it's not fair that women have to bear children, blah, blah, blah, but it's not like men are completely out of the equation as well. The child is his as well and he doesn't get a say in it's living? Why don't women just extinguish men out of the Earth? I mean we really don't need them, two women can have a child.

Now there's an idea!

Bloodraine:

I love how men are so 'unimportant' and can't decide anything about abortions, yet most women are happy enough to squeeze child benefits out of a man. How disgusting.

It takes two to conceive the brat, and in today’s incredibly expensive nothing else matters but money world, to bring a child up is a very costly affair, what was it I read recently? “100 thousand the average cost of raising a child”, who the hell has that kind of money? Even if you spread it out over 20 years!
So in today’s world context; physical, psychologically and specially in economical terms it takes two to bring the bastard up, and sometimes more than just two. Today mums and dads go out to work to be able to pay mortgage and bills, so a third person is brought into their mess, sometimes a sympathetic granny, or a child minder.

So it is self evident that if you (and I don't mean you personally) can’t be bothered dealing with the unpleasantries that involve raising a child the right way, you should keep your eggs tucked in your ovaries and your spermatozoids in your testicles where they belong and never allow the two to mix or remedy it when they do, because otherwise the only poor soul that pays the price for his/her parents shortcomings will be and always is the child.

So love doesn't exist? I suppose if you're pro-abortion murder beats love anyday, yeah?

Anji:

So love doesn't exist? I suppose if you're pro-abortion murder beats love anyday, yeah?

Next time you have to pay a utility bill and you don't have the cash go to the bank and tell them you'll pay in "love" currency. (Tell them I've sent you)

PentatonicA:

Anji:

So love doesn't exist? I suppose if you're pro-abortion murder beats love anyday, yeah?

Next time you have to pay a utility bill and you don't have the cash go to the bank and tell them you'll pay in "love" currency. (Tell them I've sent you)

I make enough money to pay my bills right now.

Tell me, do you have any children?

Anji:

Tell me, do you have any children?

Why? Do you? Is it contagious?

PentatonicA:

Anji:

Tell me, do you have any children?

Why? Do you? Is it contagious?

Yes. It is contagious.

Seriously, out of curiousity, do you have children?

PentatonicA, now you're just being rude. Just because you supposedly don't have a good enough job to raise a child doesn't mean that you should have an abortion. Fine, the family will have to make compromises. The kid won't wear the best clothes or have the latest toys. That really doesn't mean shit when the child grows up except that he or she knows the value of money.

My grandfather was a government employed teacher with a very small salary. My grandmother didn't work. They had 7 children and they all have led good enough lives. 4 of them have very high paying jobs. I don't see any negative consequences.

lyrical_mess:

PentatonicA, now you're just being rude. Just because you supposedly don't have a good enough job to raise a child doesn't mean that you should have an abortion. Fine, the family will have to make compromises. The kid won't wear the best clothes or have the latest toys. That really doesn't mean shit when the child grows up except that he or she knows the value of money.

My grandfather was a government employed teacher with a very small salary. My grandmother didn't work. They had 7 children and they all have led good enough lives. 4 of them have very high paying jobs. I don't see any negative consequences.

I love Asian family history.

My grandfather was a poverty stricken farmer living in China. He immigrated to Thailand and met my grandmother. They had six children, one works with the government and is very powerful, another is a very sucessful business owner, and another became brilliant enough to become a technician at a Canadian run ecosystems and biotechnology centre in a small town in Thailand and meet a kind foreigner who fell in love with her and had two children one of whom is staring at this screen right now. My grandparents had no money growing up with their children. They also had the misfortune of having their house burned down to the ground and all their valubles and possesions destroyed. My mother had a very tough childhood, but the support and encouragement and love of her parents made her study well adn get high enough marks to attend university and get a very good job.

lyrical_mess:

PentatonicA, now you're just being rude. Just because you supposedly don't have a good enough job to raise a child doesn't mean that you should have an abortion. Fine, the family will have to make compromises. The kid won't wear the best clothes or have the latest toys. That really doesn't mean shit when the child grows up except that he or she knows the value of money.

My grandfather was a government employed teacher with a very small salary. My grandmother didn't work. They had 7 children and they all have led good enough lives. 4 of them have very high paying jobs. I don't see any negative consequences.

I’m not being rude you’re just making assumptions over the meaning of what I’m saying, filling the blanks at your leisure.
I don’t think that if you come from a poor background you should be aborting children. That’s what they do in China and other places and it’s certainly not right.

But to make the point clearer (as if it needs it) is that when one of the parents veils out, the one that pays the price is the child, not only in terms of being possibly scared for life because of the abandonment but also in the quality of chances that will come his/her way, because in the materialistic world we live, money opens doors, lack of it closes them. Being minus one parent will have an impact in your upbringing in economical terms among other factors.

The story about your grandparents is fine and quite typical when put in the context of the time when that happened.
Things are different now, things are tougher now, and will get far worse in the near future. Seriously ppl, you got to get real, this ain’t the 50’s anymore!

PentatonicA:

Bloodraine:

I love how men are so 'unimportant' and can't decide anything about abortions, yet most women are happy enough to squeeze child benefits out of a man. How disgusting.

It takes two to conceive the brat, and in today’s incredibly expensive nothing else matters but money world, to bring a child up is a very costly affair, what was it I read recently? “100 thousand the average cost of raising a child”, who the hell has that kind of money? Even if you spread it out over 20 years!
So in today’s world context; physical, psychologically and specially in economical terms it takes two to bring the bastard up, and sometimes more than just two. Today mums and dads go out to work to be able to pay mortgage and bills, so a third person is brought into their mess, sometimes a sympathetic granny, or a child minder.

So it is self evident that if you (and I don't mean you personally) can’t be bothered dealing with the unpleasantries that involve raising a child the right way, you should keep your eggs tucked in your ovaries and your spermatozoids in your testicles where they belong and never allow the two to mix or remedy it when they do, because otherwise the only poor soul that pays the price for his/her parents shortcomings will be and always is the child.

I don't like your attitude towards children. Calling them 'brats' and 'bastards' etc.

I myself am I child and I don't hide that fact; it gets me free health prescriptions and cheap travel in mainland europe (however, people are considered adult at about the age of 6 when paying bus fares here, so no luck). Indeed, I'm not Peter Pan, I'll grow up someday, but there are copious benefits in being a child so I enjoy it while it lasts.

If I am reading your post right, "it takes two to bring the bastard up", which takes two to pay bills, two to donate their gametes but only one makes the decision as to whether the potential child lives or dies?

I wonder if the so-called 'mother' of abortion fodder, claming with such conviciton that because she is the only one with a swollen stomach, with backache and morning sickness, is the only one with a right to decide if her potential child lives or dies, would so heartily accept that she is also the only one who has to bear the fiscal costs of having a child?

To today's society; seemingly yes, I suppose. A father matters when we want his child support, but not his mere opinion on the life of his child.

PentatonicA:

lyrical_mess:

PentatonicA, now you're just being rude. Just because you supposedly don't have a good enough job to raise a child doesn't mean that you should have an abortion. Fine, the family will have to make compromises. The kid won't wear the best clothes or have the latest toys. That really doesn't mean shit when the child grows up except that he or she knows the value of money.

My grandfather was a government employed teacher with a very small salary. My grandmother didn't work. They had 7 children and they all have led good enough lives. 4 of them have very high paying jobs. I don't see any negative consequences.

I’m not being rude you’re just making assumptions over the meaning of what I’m saying, filling the blanks at your leisure.
I don’t think that if you come from a poor background you should be aborting children. That’s what they do in China and other places and it’s certainly not right.

But to make the point clearer (as if it needs it) is that when one of the parents veils out, the one that pays the price is the child, not only in terms of being possibly scared for life because of the abandonment but also in the quality of chances that will come his/her way, because in the materialistic world we live, money opens doors, lack of it closes them. Being minus one parent will have an impact in your upbringing in economical terms among other factors.

The story about your grandparents is fine and quite typical when put in the context of the time when that happened.
Things are different now, things are tougher now, and will get far worse in the near future. Seriously ppl, you got to get real, this ain’t the 50’s anymore!

That is so not nice. That is bollocks. Where on Earth did you get that idea?

The 50's were way tougher than nowadays. Especially in Asia.

I don't understand, you say that you shouldn't abort just because you can't afford a baby, yet you are on an abortion thread, talking about how a baby will suffer if the family is poor. So which is it? Abortion or none?

Anji:

]That is so not nice. That is bollocks. Where on Earth did you get that idea?
The 50's were way tougher than nowadays. Especially in Asia.

What the freaking hell is bollocks!?
Maybe in Asia pal, but here in the west, specially the states the 50's were the times of the gravy train, not for everyone of course (it never is), but opportunities were a bit easier to come by and climbing the social ladder wasn't a wild dream.

Anji:

So which is it? Abortion or none?

Like I've been saying for days now... (read carefully) it's an individual's CHOICE!

PentatonicA:

Anji:

]That is so not nice. That is bollocks. Where on Earth did you get that idea?
The 50's were way tougher than nowadays. Especially in Asia.

What the freaking hell is bollocks!?
Maybe in Asia pal, but here in the west, specially the states the 50's were the times of the gravy train, not for everyone of course (it never is), but opportunities were a bit easier to come by and climbing the social ladder wasn't a wild dream.

Anji:

So which is it? Abortion or none?

Like I've been saying for days now... (read carefully) it's an individual's CHOICE!

Oh, right. I'm sorry I forgot. The whole bloody world revolves around America. Stupid me.

PentatonicA:

Anji:

]That is so not nice. That is bollocks. Where on Earth did you get that idea?
The 50's were way tougher than nowadays. Especially in Asia.

What the freaking hell is bollocks!?

British slang, last time I heard. Hey, wait, have you never heard of that Sex Pistols album, 'Never mind the Bollocks'?
I thought everyone on this site would know that.

It is a word that means testicles, but in this case and many others, it means "that's rubbish". However, it is a very versatile word indeed and can mean both good and bad things.

Bloodraine:

I myself am I child and I don't hide that fact; it gets me free health prescriptions and cheap travel in mainland europe (however, people are considered adult at about the age of 6 when paying bus fares here, so no luck). Indeed, I'm not Peter Pan, I'll grow up someday, but there are copious benefits in being a child so I enjoy it while it lasts.

And you should.
State support for children is rapidly diminishing world wide putting even more pressures in current and future parents and leaving children in a vulnerable position.

Bloodraine:

If I am reading your post right, "it takes two to bring the bastard up", which takes two to pay bills, two to donate their gametes but only one makes the decision as to whether the potential child lives or dies?

I make no apologies about the fact that for me in other words in my oppinion (others are entitled to their own version of this) a child isn’t a child until the umbilical cord is cut. Hence the so called “life” is nothing more than a potential life, not a life on its own right because for starters it isn't even self sustaining. Might sound hard but an egg isn’t a chicken untill it hutches.

“but only one makes the decision as to whether the potential child lives or dies?”
Well how many takes to carry the fetus? How many takes to give birth? How many it takes to “be there” when the father makes his disappearance act?. And yes there are single fathers out there but how many more women being single mothers out number them by 9 to 1 (maybe more).

Bloodraine:

It is a word that means testicles, but in this case and many others, it means "that's rubbish". However, it is a very versatile word indeed and can mean both good and bad things.

Oh great, thanks for that... I was WAY off!