Veganism/vegetarianism

fancy pants:

Yes, insects count. Honey isn't vegan btw.

No it's not, but a lot of vegans still eat it for health benefits. I'm not one of them, but each to their own.

My mum's fiance is a real meat lover, but every day when we have dinner and it's spread out on the table, he'll look at my veggie stuff and go "...oooh, Jo love can I just try a bit of that" and he'll love it and rave to my mum about it

Same with my friends
We've got this pizza parlour called Hells and they do the most amazing vegan pizzas... I've converted everyone I know into buying them. The guy who always serves me always tells me pizza without cheese is wrong. Pfft.

Ooh...interesting thing I saw on TV last night in the UK.

It was called Kill it, Cook It, Eat It and it was on BBC3 at...ten I think. Something like that. Anyway, it was a kinda weird show where all these people at different ends of the market for meat - farmers, breeders, consumers, butchers, vegan protesters etc - was taken around a slaughterhouse and viewed the whole process from bringing the animal in alive to actually eating it. I think there will be more than one episode of this but I don't know.

Last night it was suckling pig (12 week old pigs).

I wouldn't really recommend anyone to watch it if they have a weak stomach but if not, then I'd say watch it because it is interesting. There was one pig breeder who said he was glad that it was a quick process but another farmer said she couldn't bear send them into the place.

Any thoughts on that?

I haven't seen that, but there is a show here called The ___ Cottage Treatment where this guy tries to convert people into eating healthier and go free range/organic.
Fascinating business really.

Kurtni:

Its a perfectly logical point...

At any rate, there is biological evidence to back that up. Our jaw structure is more suited to eating plants, we have a longer digestive track which allows us to get more nutrients out of food like plants, which is unlike most carnivores who have shorter digestive tracks. Meat eaters perspire through their tongues, herbivores have pores, like humans. Meat eaters have very strong hydrochloric acid in their stomaches; humans stomach acid isn't that strong compared to animals live wolves. Humans also have highly developed salivary glands that produce alkaline saliva which plays a role in predigestion of things like grains, carnivores don't have that.

Humans don't have any physical means to kill other animals, we don't have talons or useful teeth. We aren't that strong. Until we developed mentally, we couldn't have survived on meat. So humans haven't always been eating meat; we weren't physically capable of it.

See, with humans, it's hard to say what we were "meant" to eat. Biologically, we are herbivores. However, we're the smarty pants of the animal kingdom. We had the ability to make choices a looooooong time ago, and we could pick the food we ate. Humans chose meat; it doesn't have anything to do with what we were meant to eat.

Humans evolved from primates who eat meat, so I think that's where the need for meat stems from. And some of the biological evidence is circumstancial because bears are omnivores, but they don't have pores, they pant to cool down.

Can't the whole meat-eater/vegetarian arguement accept that maybe we're just meant to be omnivores?

The majority accept that, but unfortunately there are extremist groups like PETA who give the rest a bad name by trying to force veganism/vegetarianism down everybody's throats.
Ugh.

I don't know if anyone has been watching it, but Channel 4 is airing a series of programs that are trying to change the way people view food. I don't know it its really applicable to this topic, but I know, it has converted me into buying only free range foods, and I am actually veering towards complete vegetarianism.

Go check it out, you can catch some of the shows on your computer, and they are well worth a watch. For those who aren't familiar with British TV, 3 famous British chefs (Hugh Fernley-Whittingstall, Jamie Oliver & Gordon Ramsey) are doing a series of things (eg: setting up their own battery farmed vs free range chicken coops, dissecting the bodies of junk food addicts and showing you just what goes into pre-packaged food).

^ Isn't that what we were talking about before? Like, The River? Cottage Treatment or something?
We don't see much of Gordon Ramsay over here, nor Jamie Oliver, but we do get said show

Yeah he does The River Cottage show also, but this was a 3 hour-long episodes special to challenge his local town, and eventually the British Nation, to buy free range chicken, by showing them how they were raised and trying to get the supermarkets' attitude towards selling chicken to change also.

I wanna see! I love that guy

I know its been said in passing before, but this whole "were carnivores! cos weve been eating meat like forever"" "No were herbivores cos of our teeth and digestive tracts.." ect... actually your both wrong.
WERE OMNIVORES!
Just look at our teeth, we have teeth for tearing meat and grinding grains... I mean sure, if you want to choose to be a vegetarian thats fine! in face it is pretty good cos it lessends the demand to kill animals for food, but if I was a vegetarian I would be taking SOOOO many suppliments i would freakin rattle as I do not eat enough other things that can take the place of all the nutrients meat gives us, but if you can, hell I have no problem, just dont give me evils if you see me eating a bacon sanwige or something... same for those pro-meat people, I mean really what was the point of going "Oh... I think I'll have the MEAT dish!" very loudly and obviously to me when I was getting a cauliflower cheese dish... The vegetarian option, I LIKE CAULIFLOWER CHEESE OKAY! I eat what I like and try to make sure I get the nutirents I need, as long as I'm getting them, who cares! As long as your healthy with it... The amount of vegetarians I know who are badly anemic even with suppliments, thats danerous, but if your body can take it, great.
And to the "OMG MEAT!!!!!" people at butlins... the "meat" lasagne was bits of beef floating in tomato flavored water with some pasta on it, the vegetable lasagne was actually NICE... and anyway... that was just my vegetable tray anyway... you didnt even SEE me getting my meat tray with chicken and other various meats things on.... I dont have food portions on plates... I have them on trays I eat so much there.
If it tastes nice... and I know its not TOO inhumane, I'll eat it.

Are you always this aggravated about life or are you just PMSing?

*muffin_girl*:

I know its been said in passing before, but this whole "were carnivores! cos weve been eating meat like forever"" "No were herbivores cos of our teeth and digestive tracts.." ect... actually your both wrong.
WERE OMNIVORES!
Just look at our teeth, we have teeth for tearing meat and grinding grains... I mean sure, if you want to choose to be a vegetarian thats fine! in face it is pretty good cos it lessends the demand to kill animals for food, but if I was a vegetarian I would be taking SOOOO many suppliments i would freakin rattle as I do not eat enough other things that can take the place of all the nutrients meat gives us, but if you can, hell I have no problem, just dont give me evils if you see me eating a bacon sanwige or something... same for those pro-meat people, I mean really what was the point of going "Oh... I think I'll have the MEAT dish!" very loudly and obviously to me when I was getting a cauliflower cheese dish... The vegetarian option, I LIKE CAULIFLOWER CHEESE OKAY! I eat what I like and try to make sure I get the nutirents I need, as long as I'm getting them, who cares! As long as your healthy with it... The amount of vegetarians I know who are badly anemic even with suppliments, thats danerous, but if your body can take it, great.
And to the "OMG MEAT!!!!!" people at butlins... the "meat" lasagne was bits of beef floating in tomato flavored water with some pasta on it, the vegetable lasagne was actually NICE... and anyway... that was just my vegetable tray anyway... you didnt even SEE me getting my meat tray with chicken and other various meats things on.... I dont have food portions on plates... I have them on trays I eat so much there.
If it tastes nice... and I know its not TOO inhumane, I'll eat it.

Some good points made there...

my favourites being that vegetarians shouldn't pressure other people to become vegetarian... make them aware of these things.. sure

I mean I'm vegetarian but my parents are not and I still handle their meat and stuff...

And secondly, you would not believe how many times people will go "mmm.... look at this good MEAT..."

It's like seriously if I wanted it I would've eaten it...

*muffin_girl*:

I know its been said in passing before, but this whole "were carnivores! cos weve been eating meat like forever"" "No were herbivores cos of our teeth and digestive tracts.." ect... actually your both wrong.
WERE OMNIVORES!
Just look at our teeth, we have teeth for tearing meat and grinding grains... I mean sure, if you want to choose to be a vegetarian thats fine! in face it is pretty good cos it lessends the demand to kill animals for food, but if I was a vegetarian I would be taking SOOOO many suppliments i would freakin rattle as I do not eat enough other things that can take the place of all the nutrients meat gives us, but if you can, hell I have no problem, just dont give me evils if you see me eating a bacon sanwige or something... same for those pro-meat people, I mean really what was the point of going "Oh... I think I'll have the MEAT dish!" very loudly and obviously to me when I was getting a cauliflower cheese dish... The vegetarian option, I LIKE CAULIFLOWER CHEESE OKAY! I eat what I like and try to make sure I get the nutirents I need, as long as I'm getting them, who cares! As long as your healthy with it... The amount of vegetarians I know who are badly anemic even with suppliments, thats danerous, but if your body can take it, great.
And to the "OMG MEAT!!!!!" people at butlins... the "meat" lasagne was bits of beef floating in tomato flavored water with some pasta on it, the vegetable lasagne was actually NICE... and anyway... that was just my vegetable tray anyway... you didnt even SEE me getting my meat tray with chicken and other various meats things on.... I dont have food portions on plates... I have them on trays I eat so much there.
If it tastes nice... and I know its not TOO inhumane, I'll eat it.

We weren't discussing what we are now, it's pretty freaking obvious that humans as a species are omnivores, we have the ability to make choices and eat whatever the hell we want. We could be cannibals if we wanted to. I could eat rocks (and die, but I could still eat rocks)This whole conversation was initiated with what humans ate a long time ago, it has nothing to do with what we eat now.

Canines.

i have been vegeterian for 5 months now and the reason is because i saw this music video on tv which made me go vegeterian

It wasn't the one where they're slitting the sheep/cows throats and following them through the packing process was it?
I saw that recently and gagged. Not cool.

was it the video for Affco by the Skeptics? because it was on tv 5 months ago on this shocking videos countdown and i taped it and watched it the saturday morning when everyone was asleep in the house

Possibly, I think the band members were wrapped up in that clear plastic shit.
Edit: I'm going to youtube the Skeptics vid now, just to be sure.
I feel sick already