Bleach Rotting On Here Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 47505
April 29th, 2008 at 10:24pm
Bloodraine:
'unnatural conditions'
I've just had another thought. All domestic animals live in unnatural conditions, but most people don't really think this is a cruel thing. /random point. I'm just trying to say that 'unnatural' isn't always 'bad'. And also, I don't think that there is anything wrong with selective breeding. If you own a cat or a dog of a particular breed or pedigree, then the chances are, that breed has prevailed because people want to own it.
And what if humans killing animals is actually less cruel/painless than an animal killing an animal? Presumably if I were an animal, I'd rather be killed by having my throat slit and having a rapid death than being picked at and half-eaten-alive like cats do to mice, for example.
wait, so you think it's okay that these cows are being kept in these horrible conditions? I don't think I'm really gettign you.
I brought that up a looong time ago.
But thats not the point.
I think it's okay that humans eat meat. Actually I think you should. If you're a vegetarian, fine. I don't think that's absurd, I just think its more natural if we eat meat.
Just think of the cavemen... they had to go out and hunt for their food. And how were the animals living? they were free to roam around, and the food chain was in order.
Now, we just constantly multiply and multiply animals to the billions per year, and we keep them in cramped up places, forced to stand still, and are fed an unhelthy diet. They even put sewage into their food. Then they're chained down, and have their throat slit open, and this continues constantly. It's not like you would hunt for a cow, and that was it for the week. No.Thousands are killed every minute.
They say the Holocaust, Darfur, and other places with genocide or cuelty to humans is wrong and inhumane, what about animals? They fell pain just as much as we do. They just can't speak, and they don't know they're gonna die. They just get cooped up and slaughtered. Pigs are treated like cars and are in 'parking spaces, and they stare at a wall all day.
I just find the whole thing extremely unnatural.
I'm talking more about cuelty than vegan/vegetarianism...
lyrical_mess Falling In Love With The Board Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 5278
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:12am
I've been doing some thinking...competition in ecosystems. Suppose the world is one big ecosystem.
When predators increase, prey decreases (cuz they get eaten). When the prey decreases, competition between predators increases and because of the competition, (and survival of the fittest), predators decrease. Because there's less predators, the population of prey is free to grow again. And then competition between predators decreases and its kind of a cycle, isn't it?
So yeah. Suppose we're the predators. Suppose cows and chickens are prey. We're elminating the need for competition and survival of the fittest and all that. The amount of prey remains constant and because there is a contstant food supply, the high trophic levels (us) are free to grow. Exponentially. f we weren't breeding livestock, then we'd all die because of a shortage.
Exponentially. f we weren't breeding livestock, then we'd all die because of a shortage.
Or we could eat different food?
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134
May 2nd, 2008 at 02:54pm
Kurtni:
lyrical_mess:
Exponentially. f we weren't breeding livestock, then we'd all die because of a shortage.
Or we could eat different food?
There is already a world food crisis with regards to food shortages. Switching to grain and vegetables might not be the best option right now.
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134
May 2nd, 2008 at 02:57pm
Bleach:
Bloodraine:
'unnatural conditions'
I've just had another thought. All domestic animals live in unnatural conditions, but most people don't really think this is a cruel thing. /random point. I'm just trying to say that 'unnatural' isn't always 'bad'. And also, I don't think that there is anything wrong with selective breeding. If you own a cat or a dog of a particular breed or pedigree, then the chances are, that breed has prevailed because people want to own it.
And what if humans killing animals is actually less cruel/painless than an animal killing an animal? Presumably if I were an animal, I'd rather be killed by having my throat slit and having a rapid death than being picked at and half-eaten-alive like cats do to mice, for example.
wait, so you think it's okay that these cows are being kept in these horrible conditions? I don't think I'm really gettign you.
Wait, so you think you know what I think? Because I don't think I actually said what I think.
Define 'horrible conditions'.
What about free-range animals? Are they kept in horrible conditions?
givemyselfthecreeps! Falling In Love With The Board Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 8866
May 2nd, 2008 at 07:04pm
Bloodraine:
Bleach:
Bloodraine:
'unnatural conditions'
I've just had another thought. All domestic animals live in unnatural conditions, but most people don't really think this is a cruel thing. /random point. I'm just trying to say that 'unnatural' isn't always 'bad'. And also, I don't think that there is anything wrong with selective breeding. If you own a cat or a dog of a particular breed or pedigree, then the chances are, that breed has prevailed because people want to own it.
And what if humans killing animals is actually less cruel/painless than an animal killing an animal? Presumably if I were an animal, I'd rather be killed by having my throat slit and having a rapid death than being picked at and half-eaten-alive like cats do to mice, for example.
wait, so you think it's okay that these cows are being kept in these horrible conditions? I don't think I'm really gettign you.
Wait, so you think you know what I think? Because I don't think I actually said what I think.
Define 'horrible conditions'.
What about free-range animals? Are they kept in horrible conditions?
Unless you buy free rnage meat you can never be sure where your meat comes from. Even then there's a broad definition of what free range actually is.
Bleach Rotting On Here Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 47505
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:04pm
Bloodraine:
Bleach:
Bloodraine:
'unnatural conditions'
I've just had another thought. All domestic animals live in unnatural conditions, but most people don't really think this is a cruel thing. /random point. I'm just trying to say that 'unnatural' isn't always 'bad'. And also, I don't think that there is anything wrong with selective breeding. If you own a cat or a dog of a particular breed or pedigree, then the chances are, that breed has prevailed because people want to own it.
And what if humans killing animals is actually less cruel/painless than an animal killing an animal? Presumably if I were an animal, I'd rather be killed by having my throat slit and having a rapid death than being picked at and half-eaten-alive like cats do to mice, for example.
wait, so you think it's okay that these cows are being kept in these horrible conditions? I don't think I'm really gettign you.
Wait, so you think you know what I think? Because I don't think I actually said what I think.
Define 'horrible conditions'.
What about free-range animals? Are they kept in horrible conditions?
omg wait what?
No, I think I might've misread your post.
..oh wait.
OOOOH. Good point, man.
And by 'horrible conditions' I meant that animals are being cramped together, get injured, killed, and they go insane from the lack of movement. Even chickens. And I was looking at some pictures of animal living conditions in a book I'm reading, and they showed veal who were having horrible dihorrea, and it was all drying and crusting on them. They have to also stand still for most of the day. And some veal don't even live for 24 hours. I mean, if our pets were treated like this, we'd get arrested. Yet this is happening to billions and billions of animals each year, and not many people really care.
Bleach Rotting On Here Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 47505
May 2nd, 2008 at 11:07pm
Bloodraine:
What about free-range animals? Are they kept in horrible conditions?
tbh I didn't really think there were many free- range farms, but I was talking to a friend about it, and he says there are a bunch... So I'm gonna see if I can get some free-range meat... of course it's gonna cost more... kinda sad how freedom costs more than abuse, expecially when freedom is so simple.
whatever, I'm just yapping
Anji Basket Case Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 15914
May 3rd, 2008 at 01:39pm
Kurtni:
How is it subjective? We know the nervous system of animals work, we can tell if we're putting them through pain. We know what nutrients their bodies need, we can tell if we're providing them with the correct nutrition. It isn't hard to see if you're pet is happy or not. I'm quite certain my cat enjoys his life to the fullest.
I could be on estacsy and LSD for my entire life and be the happiest person on Earth without a care or worry and then die at the age of 20. Who knows what they truly feel? You cannot tell, it's internal and they decide themselves how much they suffer in life or enjoy, it's something that maybe we can observe and hypothesise, but we cannot know. Internally we could be wrecking havok with all sorts of artificial products we use on them, like shampoos, foods, ear wash liquid (my dogs need them). Gorillas help in captive in zoos are dying from unknown heart problems that have never been observed in wild gorillas. You can be quite certain that there was no problem, but you can't truly know how it feels. You can never feel another's pain, suffering, joy, sadness.
Baguelle King For A Couple Of Days Age: - Gender: - Posts: 2727
May 4th, 2008 at 11:46pm
I'm not exactly sure where I stand here.
I eat meat, but I always feel a sense of guilt whenever I do. I love animals, but I like meat. I'm not overweight, so I don't understand why people say that you will become extremely unhealthy once you eat it. I don't feel that I've been sucked into any sort of mind game, which is what I've heard from some of my meat-free friends. I'm not doubting that I can give it up if I really wanted to, I'm simply misinformed, I suppose. Ah, the confusion.
Bleach Rotting On Here Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 47505
May 7th, 2008 at 08:44pm
the stuff that's really bad for you is the cows that are cooped up.
its full of fat and isn't as nutritious
if you kill an animal in the wile, the meat is redder and stronger
but yeah
I'm responding to that fact that meg said that domesticating animals isn't natural...
I was thinking about it, and domesticated animals are here for a certain purpose
I think it's fine, personally, I just find it gross when it starts to ruin the enviroment, abusing animals, and making thme live unnatural lives [cooped up, bad nutrition etc...]
I mean, we're not really that strong or fast [unless we get an adrenaline rush] So it would be alot harder for us to hunt. I guess domesticating animals is just our way of getting food.] other animals have their own skills too.
We also have to make sacrifices to take care of the animals too, it's not like we still get all the food and water we usually get and own animals.
i've had the urge to be vegetarian for the longest, but i never started cuz i couldn't find my reason. now i think it's for health purposes. i don't like the way animals are treated either. however, somebody has to eat meat, because if everyone were veg, then animals would overpopulate and there wouldn't be enough food and all would starve and die. so having meat-eaters is necessary, but there are DEFINITELY better ways of "hunting" than what the meat industry does
Bleach Rotting On Here Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 47505
May 13th, 2008 at 09:00pm
Green for a Day:
i've had the urge to be vegetarian for the longest, but i never started cuz i couldn't find my reason. now i think it's for health purposes. i don't like the way animals are treated either. however, somebody has to eat meat, because if everyone were veg, then animals would overpopulate and there wouldn't be enough food and all would starve and die. so having meat-eaters is necessary, but there are DEFINITELY better ways of "hunting" than what the meat industry does
it's all part of the food chain.
but it's like, there's the food chain, and then theres a meat industry. sickening.
i've had the urge to be vegetarian for the longest, but i never started cuz i couldn't find my reason. now i think it's for health purposes. i don't like the way animals are treated either. however, somebody has to eat meat, because if everyone were veg, then animals would overpopulate and there wouldn't be enough food and all would starve and die. so having meat-eaters is necessary, but there are DEFINITELY better ways of "hunting" than what the meat industry does
it's all part of the food chain.
but it's like, there's the food chain, and then theres a meat industry. sickening.
yeah i know...not a lot of people think i'll last, but i do.
Bleach Rotting On Here Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 47505
May 14th, 2008 at 11:46pm
Cry Baby:
millions of animals are bred for humans to eat.
It's actually like a few billion cows, a few billion chickens, and a slightly smaller amount for sheep and pigs.
and then there's all of the other animals.
Billions.
...yet a pound of cow meat is $11.
fancy pants Post Whore Age: 37 Gender: Female Posts: 22225
May 15th, 2008 at 12:53am
Bleach:
Cry Baby:
millions of animals are bred for humans to eat.
It's actually like a few billion cows, a few billion chickens, and a slightly smaller amount for sheep and pigs.
and then there's all of the other animals.
Billions.
...yet a pound of cow meat is $11.
And people think it's expensive to be a vegetarian. Haha. Not at all. Especially when a lot of restaurants offer vegetarian versions of a lot of their dishes for a few dollars cheaper. =D
