Ban Animal Dissection

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Anji
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April 15th, 2007 at 02:59am
We can have this dispute because of a mutation millions of years ago. We're blasphemous!

Maybe we weren't ever supposed to be superior. But since our mutation, we over took everything with any sort of pathos.
anti social
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April 15th, 2007 at 06:36pm
i think its alright as long as the animal is dead before you start ripping it open.
Brendon Urie..
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Mibba
April 15th, 2007 at 07:00pm
anti social:
i think its alright as long as the animal is dead before you start ripping it open.

Even if the reason they drug the animal so it's bigger for dissection?
Even if they abort the babies of another animal so they can use it's babies for dissection?

If the animal died of natural causes, fine.
But it usually doesn't work that way.
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April 16th, 2007 at 08:23am
druscilla; in rags:
anti social:
i think its alright as long as the animal is dead before you start ripping it open.

Even if the reason they drug the animal so it's bigger for dissection?
Even if they abort the babies of another animal so they can use it's babies for dissection?

If the animal died of natural causes, fine.
But it usually doesn't work that way.

Hey...aren't you pro-abrotion? o.o

So you support aborting babies when it benefits the mother, but you don't support it when it benefits the education of humanity?

At east animal foetuses in experiments have a purpose; to gain knowledge, and not just be thrown in a medical waste container like your average successful abortion. I mean, we don't learn anything at all from that.
Brendon Urie..
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April 16th, 2007 at 06:04pm
Bloodraine:
druscilla; in rags:
anti social:
i think its alright as long as the animal is dead before you start ripping it open.

Even if the reason they drug the animal so it's bigger for dissection?
Even if they abort the babies of another animal so they can use it's babies for dissection?

If the animal died of natural causes, fine.
But it usually doesn't work that way.

Hey...aren't you pro-abrotion? o.o

So you support aborting babies when it benefits the mother, but you don't support it when it benefits the education of humanity?

At east animal foetuses in experiments have a purpose; to gain knowledge, and not just be thrown in a medical waste container like your average successful abortion. I mean, we don't learn anything at all from that.

I'm pro-choice. It's not the same as pro-abortion. I don't think everyone should get one and I don't think they're a good thing, but I believe in choice. Nobody who's pro-choice is usually pro-abortion. They just believe that it's the mother's choice.

And as for the education of humanity ... GET A FUCKING SOFTWARE PROGRAM!

A mother who gets an abortion has a choice. Scientists who drug animals are just doping them up before they destroy their lives. When an animal is created strictly for death then I disagree. Most people don't create a child just so they can have an abortion.
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April 16th, 2007 at 06:08pm
Kurtni:
Well first off thats a PETA video, no offense to those who support Peta, but they are a bunch of extremeist political fools in my opinion. Do you see them out their doing anything? No, they put little videos on the internet to cause issues. They want the publicity, and actually helping animals becomes a second priority and that really aggitates me.


Actually, I have seem them out doing quite a bit.


I'm mixed with this. Personally, I'm never going to dissect regardless of whethermy Bio teacher say I 'have to' or not. I don't think it's right to cut open another creature just to look around and see how things are and such.
However, I can understand how doing this is beneficial to Science and is a good process of learning, therefore I'm not all "AHH BAD" when it comes to dissection.
I DO believe however, that the choice to dissect should be made by the individual student. If they decide they'd rather not do it, I think the schools should understand this.
Flaming Phalanges!
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April 16th, 2007 at 06:31pm
It's really rare to dissect whole animals in the UK. I don't think they actually do it over here anymore actually, but my old school got eyes, hearts, livers and kidneys from the butchers, so the animals had been killed, but we were making use of what was left, because it would only have been thrown away anyway.

But killing animals FOR dissection and toturing them is wrong. I haven't watched the video, because I don't want to watch that sort of thing.
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April 16th, 2007 at 06:33pm
druscilla; in rags:
Bloodraine:
druscilla; in rags:
anti social:
i think its alright as long as the animal is dead before you start ripping it open.

Even if the reason they drug the animal so it's bigger for dissection?
Even if they abort the babies of another animal so they can use it's babies for dissection?

If the animal died of natural causes, fine.
But it usually doesn't work that way.

Hey...aren't you pro-abrotion? o.o

So you support aborting babies when it benefits the mother, but you don't support it when it benefits the education of humanity?

At east animal foetuses in experiments have a purpose; to gain knowledge, and not just be thrown in a medical waste container like your average successful abortion. I mean, we don't learn anything at all from that.

I'm pro-choice. It's not the same as pro-abortion. I don't think everyone should get one and I don't think they're a good thing, but I believe in choice. Nobody who's pro-choice is usually pro-abortion. They just believe that it's the mother's choice.

And as for the education of humanity ... GET A FUCKING SOFTWARE PROGRAM!

A mother who gets an abortion has a choice. Scientists who drug animals are just doping them up before they destroy their lives. When an animal is created strictly for death then I disagree. Most people don't create a child just so they can have an abortion.


You can't learn everything from a software program. Doctors don't learn to be doctors by treating virtual patients.
anti social
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April 16th, 2007 at 08:43pm
Flaming Phalanges!:
druscilla; in rags:
Bloodraine:
druscilla; in rags:
anti social:
i think its alright as long as the animal is dead before you start ripping it open.

Even if the reason they drug the animal so it's bigger for dissection?
Even if they abort the babies of another animal so they can use it's babies for dissection?

If the animal died of natural causes, fine.
But it usually doesn't work that way.

Hey...aren't you pro-abrotion? o.o

So you support aborting babies when it benefits the mother, but you don't support it when it benefits the education of humanity?

At east animal foetuses in experiments have a purpose; to gain knowledge, and not just be thrown in a medical waste container like your average successful abortion. I mean, we don't learn anything at all from that.

I'm pro-choice. It's not the same as pro-abortion. I don't think everyone should get one and I don't think they're a good thing, but I believe in choice. Nobody who's pro-choice is usually pro-abortion. They just believe that it's the mother's choice.

And as for the education of humanity ... GET A FUCKING SOFTWARE PROGRAM!

A mother who gets an abortion has a choice. Scientists who drug animals are just doping them up before they destroy their lives. When an animal is created strictly for death then I disagree. Most people don't create a child just so they can have an abortion.


You can't learn everything from a software program. Doctors don't learn to be doctors by treating virtual patients.
'


@ druscilla; in rags:
i think its fine if they drug the animal if they're living in good conditions. good meaning free roaming, somewhat good food, and as long as it's life wasn't miserable before it died i don't mind if it dies for dissection.
my brain doesn't comprehend your second statement [its my fault, not yours, no need to explain] so i'm not responding to it.

@ Bloodraine:
I support your second statement. thats it.




i think that animals shouldn't be dissected excessively, and only people who specifically take courses involving dissecting animals should be allowed to. that way those unused animals can be given to some other school.




all of you people here are so intelligent... it makes me feel dumb. i don't think this is a good place for me to debate...
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April 16th, 2007 at 10:00pm
DizzyX:
I dont see how disecting causes any harm, most of the animals they use for disection are, unwanted or already dead. Where there is no room in a shelter and they need more room for animals that someone could care for whats better putting a dying/dead animal to good use, or burning it/putting it in the ground. Fact, disection isnt only done on small furry wiidland amimals, it is done on humans, so i dont want to hear any of your hateful animal rights talk about how we are opressing them. Animals Dying and or being killed by nature or a more dominant animal is something we call the foodchain, mabey you middle school kids dont understand it yet, it is marvelous. We have evolved to be the dominant species, so why not use them to our advantage. We would still be in a medical and biological stone age if it wasnt for disecting and experimenting on animals.


i agree, and this relates to charles darwin's theory of evolution. however, some people pity the animals [that includes me, but not to an extreme] and i feel that if people want to kill them that they should be killed in a humane way.
Brendon Urie..
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Mibba
April 16th, 2007 at 10:05pm
Flaming Phalanges!:
You can't learn everything from a software program. Doctors don't learn to be doctors by treating virtual patients.

Yes, but we're talking about high schoolers, not med students.
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April 17th, 2007 at 07:45am
druscilla; in rags:
Flaming Phalanges!:
You can't learn everything from a software program. Doctors don't learn to be doctors by treating virtual patients.

Yes, but we're talking about high schoolers, not med students.


We're talking about banning animal dissection.

Surely that applies to anybody who's learning, not just school students.

And besides, if somebody wants to be a vet or a doctor but they're not sure, it will give them a bit of an idea as to whether they can cope with the 'gross' stuff.
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April 17th, 2007 at 09:07am
druscilla; in rags:
Bloodraine:
Hey...aren't you pro-abrotion? o.o

So you support aborting babies when it benefits the mother, but you don't support it when it benefits the education of humanity?

At east animal foetuses in experiments have a purpose; to gain knowledge, and not just be thrown in a medical waste container like your average successful abortion. I mean, we don't learn anything at all from that.

I'm pro-choice. It's not the same as pro-abortion. I don't think everyone should get one and I don't think they're a good thing, but I believe in choice. Nobody who's pro-choice is usually pro-abortion. They just believe that it's the mother's choice.

And as for the education of humanity ... GET A FUCKING SOFTWARE PROGRAM!

A mother who gets an abortion has a choice. Scientists who drug animals are just doping them up before they destroy their lives. When an animal is created strictly for death then I disagree. Most people don't create a child just so they can have an abortion.

Firstly, no matter how many times you claim to be pro-choice, I'm not going to accept it, because you're pro-abortion. You support it. I'm not being insulting, I'm being a realist, because that is what you are. I disagree with abortion, so I am anti-abortion. However, I still think you should have a choice before you decide to condemn your baby-to-be to death, so I guess I could call myself 'pro-choice'. o_o

A FUCKING SOFTWARE PROGRAM!111elevntyone didn't teach me how a heart works. You know what?
Software programs don't cut it. Much as I adore computer graphics, they aren't a substitute for the real thing. How confident would you feel if a doctor was about to give you heart surgery and he's only ever seen a heart on a computer screen before?

A woman (not a mother, dammit, think to_o) who has an abortion has a choice. The foetus/baby/thing, however, doesn't. We neglect that choice, okay, because the foetus doesn't have complex human emotions and stuff. People say they aren't human, so they can go. Well, okay, cool. Well, neither can an animal. They don't have any of this human shit, they can't make a choice like the foeus either, and yet you're getting angry about them being aborted?
Brendon Urie..
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April 17th, 2007 at 08:10pm
Bloodraine:
Firstly, no matter how many times you claim to be pro-choice, I'm not going to accept it, because you're pro-abortion. You support it. I'm not being insulting, I'm being a realist, because that is what you are. I disagree with abortion, so I am anti-abortion. However, I still think you should have a choice before you decide to condemn your baby-to-be to death, so I guess I could call myself 'pro-choice'. o_o

A FUCKING SOFTWARE PROGRAM!111elevntyone didn't teach me how a heart works. You know what?
Software programs don't cut it. Much as I adore computer graphics, they aren't a substitute for the real thing. How confident would you feel if a doctor was about to give you heart surgery and he's only ever seen a heart on a computer screen before?

A woman (not a mother, dammit, think to_o) who has an abortion has a choice. The foetus/baby/thing, however, doesn't. We neglect that choice, okay, because the foetus doesn't have complex human emotions and stuff. People say they aren't human, so they can go. Well, okay, cool. Well, neither can an animal. They don't have any of this human shit, they can't make a choice like the foeus either, and yet you're getting angry about them being aborted?

Firstly, you're not me so don't tell me I'm pro-abortion.
I support a woman's choice to have an abortion, but I don't think it's a good thing.
So you can stop telling me what I believe in because I know better than you.

Notice I said that in med school you can dissect. It's different then. You actually need to know. A high school student doesn't need to know how to cut open a dead frog and find it's stomach. It's not fucking important.

And children are not created simply for abortions, unlike the animals that are being aborted. They're also carried nearly to full-term, which is illegal in the case of abortions unless the mother could die.
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April 18th, 2007 at 10:16am
druscilla; in rags:

Firstly, you're not me so don't tell me I'm pro-abortion.
I support a woman's choice to have an abortion, but I don't think it's a good thing.
So you can stop telling me what I believe in because I know better than you.

Notice I said that in med school you can dissect. It's different then. You actually need to know. A high school student doesn't need to know how to cut open a dead frog and find it's stomach. It's not fucking important.

And children are not created simply for abortions, unlike the animals that are being aborted. They're also carried nearly to full-term, which is illegal in the case of abortions unless the mother could die.
That's because high school students' courses and curriculums are based around showing the high school students what they may be interested in as a career choice. I don't think there would be many people at all applying for medical school if all they were ever taught was on a computer screen. The point of practicals are to put the student in the possible position of a scientist or geographer or mathematician or designer. On a computer, the experience isn't there.

I don't know about anyone else, but in my school, after every discection we had a write up. Even if it was just a leaf discection. We had to do it because part of the write ups it to talk about saftey issues, things that went wrong, possible deformations with the specimen, that kind of thing. It's more of an uncontrolled practical. You won't get that with a computer. My friend almost sliced his finger off with a scalpel, he learned a lesson from that that wouldn't be learn via computer.
Kurtni
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April 18th, 2007 at 06:54pm
druscilla; in rags:

Firstly, you're not me so don't tell me I'm pro-abortion.
I support a woman's choice to have an abortion, but I don't think it's a good thing.
So you can stop telling me what I believe in because I know better than you.

Notice I said that in med school you can dissect. It's different then. You actually need to know. A high school student doesn't need to know how to cut open a dead frog and find it's stomach. It's not fucking important.

And children are not created simply for abortions, unlike the animals that are being aborted. They're also carried nearly to full-term, which is illegal in the case of abortions unless the mother could die.

Well firstly, you aren't pro-choice, that's just your guilty conscience trying to find a way to sugercoat the fact that you're supporting the murder of innocent lives (you even said you don't think its a good thing) Wink You don't believe in women having a choice, not even close. You think they shouldn't have consequenes for their actions, and that becuase they don't like the consequences they have the right to take away a life. Killing for your own personal gain is murder, no questions asked. So, I know you're going to reply to this with " you can't tell me what I support blah blah blah I think everyone deserves a choice blah blah blah it isn't murder because the fetus isnt human blah blah blah" 'cause that's what they always say. And in all honesty, if you have to resort to saying "I know better than you" in an arguement maybe you shouldn't be involved in the debate to being with because that's an uneducated statement providing no reasoning at all.
Brendon Urie..
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April 18th, 2007 at 07:00pm
Kurtni:
druscilla; in rags:

Firstly, you're not me so don't tell me I'm pro-abortion.
I support a woman's choice to have an abortion, but I don't think it's a good thing.
So you can stop telling me what I believe in because I know better than you.

Notice I said that in med school you can dissect. It's different then. You actually need to know. A high school student doesn't need to know how to cut open a dead frog and find it's stomach. It's not fucking important.

And children are not created simply for abortions, unlike the animals that are being aborted. They're also carried nearly to full-term, which is illegal in the case of abortions unless the mother could die.

Well firstly, you aren't pro-choice, that's just your guilty conscience trying to find a way to sugercoat the fact that you're supporting the murder of innocent lives (you even said you don't think its a good thing) Wink You don't believe in women having a choice, not even close. You think they shouldn't have consequenes for their actions, and that becuase they don't like the consequences they have the right to take away a life. Killing for your own personal gain is murder, no questions asked. So, I know you're going to reply to this with " you can't tell me what I support blah blah blah I think everyone deserves a choice blah blah blah it isn't murder because the fetus isnt human blah blah blah" 'cause that's what they always say. And in all honesty, if you have to resort to saying "I know better than you" in an arguement maybe you shouldn't be involved in the debate to being with because that's an uneducated statement providing no reasoning at all.

The reasoning is that you don't fucking know me so you have no idea what I believe.
I believe in choice. And if that choice is abortion then I support the choice.
I believe that a woman's body should not be controlled by the government. Her uterus is none of their business.
You're just ignorant and think that pro-choice means pro-abortion.

And, yes, of course every abortion is performed for the mother's own personal gain. It couldn't have been rape, that the protection she used failed, that her husband is abusive, that she was raped by her brother and got pregnant. All women who get abortions must be crack-addicted whores who only care about themselves.
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April 18th, 2007 at 07:17pm
druscilla; in rags:

The reasoning is that you don't fucking know me so you have no idea what I believe.
I believe in choice. And if that choice is abortion then I support the choice.
You're just ignorant and think that pro-choice means pro-abortion.
I don't give a shit.

And, yes, of course every abortion is performed for the mother's own personal gain. It couldn't have been rape, that the protection she used failed, that her husband is abusive, that she was raped by her brother and got pregnant. All women who get abortions must be crack-addicted whores who only care about themselves.

So, I know you're going to reply to this with " you can't tell me what I support blah blah blah I think everyone deserves a choice blah blah blah it isn't murder because the fetus isnt human blah blah blah" 'cause that's what they always say
Cool, I was right.
I don't have to know you :] You think its ok for women to get abortions because they have that "choice", which means you support them. I understand you don't like abortions, in all honesty who would like the concept of abortion?But you disliking them doesn't change the fact that you still support them. So yes, you are pro-abortion I'll have to disagree with you on the fact that Im ignorant, quite a bit actually. I have a different opinion than you. You'd have to have a major superiority complex to think that everyone who doesn't agree with you is ignorant. Im sure there are people who think you're extremely ignorant for feeling the way you do. I don't. I think you're wrong, but I don't consider you to be ignorant. And it's pretty obvious you do care or you wouldn't bother replying to anything I say.

And even if it is rape, an accident, whatever.. it's still for her gain, is it not? Isn't it so she wouldn't have to deal with the trama of carrying her rapists baby? That seems like a pretty damn big gain to me. I love how you try and put words in my mouth. I never said anywhere I thought that the only people who get abortions are crack addicted whores, not even close. It's pretty childish to accuse people of saying things in a debate that they most definitely did not. We weren't even talking about specific reasons for rape. But the broad picture is no matter why you get an abortion you are gaining something from it. Maybe its peace of mind from your rapist, maybe its so you don't have to pay for a kid, or you just don't want one. All of those are for your own personal gain, the question becomes what is considered a justified reason. In my opinion, rape isn't a justified reason at all. However I do think it should be allowed in that case, I think they have that choice. But im not going to say some bullshit sugarcoated arguement and deny the fact that I support abortion, because in the case of rape and only in the case of rape I do. It'd be nice to be able to call it something else less malevolent sounding, but that just doesn't work. It is what it is and you can't argue around that.
Brendon Urie..
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Mibba
April 18th, 2007 at 08:25pm
Kurtni:
So, I know you're going to reply to this with " you can't tell me what I support blah blah blah I think everyone deserves a choice blah blah blah it isn't murder because the fetus isnt human blah blah blah" 'cause that's what they always say
Cool, I was right.

I'm glad your psychic.
Bully for you.
Pro-life = nobody should abort.
Pro-choice = everybody should have a choice.
By logical reasoning it would then mean:
Pro-abortion = everybody should abort.

I don't want the extinction of the entire human race.
So I guess you're wrong on one count.
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April 19th, 2007 at 06:40am
Kurtni:
And in all honesty, if you have to resort to saying "I know better than you" in an arguement maybe you shouldn't be involved in the debate to being with because that's an uneducated statement providing no reasoning at all.

Yep, that certainly got me told lmfao

mental note: never debate with some people, because they know better. Retard
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