Veganism/vegetarianism

Cecilia:

Though my vet (rather, my dog's vet..) always told me that animals don't think but have feelings..

They don't think? What about memory then? (Like, dogs remembering tricks etc.)

Revolution Rock:

Cecilia:

Though my vet (rather, my dog's vet..) always told me that animals don't think but have feelings..

They don't think? What about memory then? (Like, dogs remembering tricks etc.)

You also cannot deny that they don't have intellegence, therefore they must think. When a school of dolphines hunt fish, forcing a whole school to the surface, trapping them in a huge cluster, I mean, it's not rocket science, but it's not exactly coincedence that they do it every single time. It's obviously intellegence, exhibited even in the most wild of animals.

cr0ashyan wh00r:

But if we would think that plants have feelings what would we eat then? I mean, yeah there are all sorts of products, but I personally think that we should eat meat, vegetables, fruit and other products to be healthy. Either that or a really careful diet.

Not just that, but how could you prove that the reason for improved plant growth is due to feelings? It's where the topic starts getting into ontology, because this would pose as a dialema for materialists, considering that plants do not have brains. But of course, the ontology parody, that if and when either idealism or dualism is proven (which we already know is impossible), it automatically becomes materialsm.

But the stimulated growth could be from the sound waves, just like how Mozart seemed to have embedded in his compositions melodies whose frequencies had been proven to reduce seizures, generate an increase in brain activity, etc. It could be a scientifiic explanation which would disprove this.

Anji:

cr0ashyan wh00r:

But if we would think that plants have feelings what would we eat then? I mean, yeah there are all sorts of products, but I personally think that we should eat meat, vegetables, fruit and other products to be healthy. Either that or a really careful diet.

Not just that, but how could you prove that the reason for improved plant growth is due to feelings? It's where the topic starts getting into ontology, because this would pose as a dialema for materialists, considering that plants do not have brains. But of course, the ontology parody, that if and when either idealism or dualism is proven (which we already know is impossible), it automatically becomes materialsm.

But the stimulated growth could be from the sound waves, just like how Mozart seemed to have embedded in his compositions melodies whose frequencies had been proven to reduce seizures, generate an increase in brain activity, etc. It could be a scientifiic explanation which would disprove this.

Did you read back a page though? I posted some stuff about plants having memory...

But I agree with you on the stimulated growth being caused by the sound waves. That makes total sense.

but in response to cr0ashyan wh00r ... say plants were intelligent beings? (which I must say.. I am still not convinced they are....).... than what would we eat... if we were against cruelty of intelligent beings. (and to this you might say that plants are not treated cruelly... but I would say they are.. as most farmers use pesticide... blech..). Well... I would say.. eat whatever you want.. just make sure it's well balanced and your getting all the vitamins and minerals you need.... because if indeed plants are intelligent beings.. than it's time to get over the fact that you need to eat living beings that may be intelligent to live.. because the only things that harbor energy are living beings.

Exactly. ^

We're not special or different. Everything else in the animal kingdom eats living beings to survive and homo sapiens ain't no exception. Plants or animals, eat something and don't die. Or if you still got qualms about, give all of your food to starving Ethiopians. They'll be more than happy.

I disagree with us not being different. Humans are different than animals because he have 'rights'. We feel guilty and have these long debates about vegetarianism and veganism. This is because humans have responsibilities. I do not believe that animals have rights because they do not have responsibilities, not the least to say that we should be treating them better, because we should. I think this is what seperates humans from animals.

See now I'm wondering if there are any other animals in the world like humans... [/slightly off topic]

Anji:

I disagree with us not being different. Humans are different than animals because he have 'rights'. We feel guilty and have these long debates about vegetarianism and veganism. This is because humans have responsibilities. I do not believe that animals have rights because they do not have responsibilities, not the least to say that we should be treating them better, because we should. I think this is what separates humans from animals.

I kinda agree... I'm still thinking because I'm slow and that was a big statement, I'll get back to you though.

lyrical_mess:

Exactly. ^

We're not special or different. Everything else in the animal kingdom eats living beings to survive and homo sapiens ain't no exception. Plants or animals, eat something and don't die. Or if you still got qualms about, give all of your food to starving Ethiopians. They'll be more than happy.

Don't young children use that when they don't want to eat their vegetables?
"There are plenty of children in Africa who'd kill for this meal!"
"Well send it to them then!"

Try again for an intelligent comeback love.

Tokyo Hardcore:

lyrical_mess:

Exactly. ^

We're not special or different. Everything else in the animal kingdom eats living beings to survive and homo sapiens ain't no exception. Plants or animals, eat something and don't die. Or if you still got qualms about, give all of your food to starving Ethiopians. They'll be more than happy.

Don't young children use that when they don't want to eat their vegetables?
"There are plenty of children in Africa who'd kill for this meal!"
"Well send it to them then!"

Try again for an intelligent comeback love.

It is the truth though. How many vegetarians do you think you'll find in Ethiopia or Sudan or Uganda? I'll bet any amount that I could count them on my thumbs.

Ol' Blue Eyes.:

It is the truth though. How many vegetarians do you think you'll find in Ethiopia or Sudan or Uganda? I'll bet any amount that I could count them on my thumbs.

I'm not in Sudan or Uganda.

Why should I eat everything that's thrown at me just because some people have to? That would be like having the money to buy a nice car but not doing it because some people don't have the money to. That would be like having a house, but not living in it because some people are homeless.

It's a terrible thing, but... still.

Veritas:

Ol' Blue Eyes.:

It is the truth though. How many vegetarians do you think you'll find in Ethiopia or Sudan or Uganda? I'll bet any amount that I could count them on my thumbs.

I'm not in Sudan or Uganda.

Why should I eat everything that's thrown at me just because some people have to? That would be like having the money to buy a nice car but not doing it because some people don't have the money to. That would be like having a house, but not living in it because some people are homeless.

It's a terrible thing, but... still.

I just think it's sort of ridiculous for anyone to be refusing food, regardless.

And if we don't want it, then shouldn't we start sending it to the starving people?

Ol' Blue Eyes.:

I just think it's sort of ridiculous for anyone to be refusing food, regardless.

And if we don't want it, then shouldn't we start sending it to the starving people?

I do donate money to places like that.

I would send them my bacon from breakfast but I'm afraid it wouldn't be too good by the time it gets there.

Sorrow Rebuild Me.:

See now I'm wondering if there are any other animals in the world like humans... [/slightly off topic]

There are not, because animals do not think in the abstract. If they did, then they could make advancements in society much as we have, though I will admit that evolution may allow this but only in the very far future.

Veritas:

Ol' Blue Eyes.:

I just think it's sort of ridiculous for anyone to be refusing food, regardless.

And if we don't want it, then shouldn't we start sending it to the starving people?

I do donate money to places like that.

I would send them my bacon from breakfast but I'm afraid it wouldn't be too good by the time it gets there.

@ you donating money.

Just that I think it's almost superfluous for me to stick up my nose at anything when there's people who would kill for that food. That's how I justify myself, and why I always clear my plate of everything. I consider myself lucky that I have food, so not eating it is inexcusable, in my opinion.

I have nothing against vegetarians, honestly, I applaude their self-control. But it's just not for me.

Ol' Blue Eyes.:

@ you donating money.

Just that I think it's almost superfluous for me to stick up my nose at anything when there's people who would kill for that food. That's how I justify myself, and why I always clear my plate of everything. I consider myself lucky that I have food, so not eating it is inexcusable, in my opinion.

I have nothing against vegetarians, honestly, I applaude their self-control. But it's just not for me.

And you know what, I totally agree with what you're saying. I'm lucky enough to have a choice on what I eat, and I'm very happy for that fact.

You're actually right. Vegetarians do have self-control. Well, I don't have to excsercise any, but I mean the ones who become vegetarians later on in life whether for moral or medical reasons. I've seen a lot of my friends trying to convert to veg and they're all like "gaaaaah chicken. But NO. I won't!" and stuff.

Come to think of it, I think I have to excercise some self control when I'm around people eating meat too, depending on what it is. Because while most people find the smell of their food mouthwateringly delectable, there are times when I smell something absolutely revolting and my friends are like "mmm...that smells so good. i think its mutton." or whatever. For example, the smell of bioled eggs makes me want to puke. Despite this, I sat and ate breakfast with two of my friends while they sat there eatin' their eggs.

Anji:

Sorrow Rebuild Me.:

See now I'm wondering if there are any other animals in the world like humans... [/slightly off topic]

There are not, because animals do not think in the abstract. If they did, then they could make advancements in society much as we have, though I will admit that evolution may allow this but only in the very far future.

Thats debateable. Some primates have been identified with characteristics very similar to humans. they have the ability to reason and use tools. Obviously, they're no where near as advanced as us. But in their own way, they have advanced their society, They don't rely on instinct alone to function anymore.

I have images of a monkey in a business suit now.

Kurtni:

Anji:

Sorrow Rebuild Me.:

See now I'm wondering if there are any other animals in the world like humans... [/slightly off topic]

There are not, because animals do not think in the abstract. If they did, then they could make advancements in society much as we have, though I will admit that evolution may allow this but only in the very far future.

Thats debateable. Some primates have been identified with characteristics very similar to humans. they have the ability to reason and use tools. Obviously, they're no where near as advanced as us. But in their own way, they have advanced their society, They don't rely on instinct alone to function anymore.

I have images of a monkey in a business suit now.

Animals frequently show great intelligence. It's no secret. It's just that they're so terribly underestimated.
The Kea parrot, for example. Numerous test show just how eminent her intelligence really is and how much she thrives on team work.

Ive tried to be a vegetarian, but I usually forget [it literally slips my mind] and eat meat. It would be nice and all to not eat the animals but I dont know if my short term memory loss will pull through LOL Poor animals get eaten Poor plants too they get their goodies ripped off and shipped off for people to eat. Humans should just not eat e_e