newagecarny Was Here Two Weeks Ago Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 42495
October 3rd, 2007 at 01:01am
robotchicken.:
Humans should just not eat e_e
Right.
Well animals eat both plants and other animals. So does that mean they shouldn't eat either?
But yeah, I know you weren't being serious.
Ol' Blue Eyes. King For A Couple Of Days Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 4816
October 3rd, 2007 at 04:42am
In regards to the "animals as intelligent beings" arguement, I've got a tidbit of news that I thought was relevant. Spin it however you want.
I saw on the news that monkeys/chimpanzees in, I think it was Australia, began robbing houses and cars in villages. People have been coming home and finding monkeys in their kitchen, taking food and soiling everything in sight.
Basically, the monkeys find their way into the house, using doors. Not breaking in through the windows, but actually like. Using the proper entrance.
I wish I could locate the video. It was insane. Youtube maybe, I'll check.
Sylar Falling In Love With The Board Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 5703
October 3rd, 2007 at 07:41am
Ol' Blue Eyes.:
Veritas:
Ol' Blue Eyes.:
It is the truth though. How many vegetarians do you think you'll find in Ethiopia or Sudan or Uganda? I'll bet any amount that I could count them on my thumbs.
I'm not in Sudan or Uganda.
Why should I eat everything that's thrown at me just because some people have to? That would be like having the money to buy a nice car but not doing it because some people don't have the money to. That would be like having a house, but not living in it because some people are homeless.
It's a terrible thing, but... still.
I just think it's sort of ridiculous for anyone to be refusing food, regardless.
And if we don't want it, then shouldn't we start sending it to the starving people?
I as good as do. I have a sponsor child in Tanzania. So I guess the money I would be spending on animal products is going to her.
Argument null and void.
newagecarny Was Here Two Weeks Ago Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 42495
October 3rd, 2007 at 09:44am
Ol' Blue Eyes.:
In regards to the "animals as intelligent beings" arguement, I've got a tidbit of news that I thought was relevant. Spin it however you want.
I saw on the news that monkeys/chimpanzees in, I think it was Australia, began robbing houses and cars in villages. People have been coming home and finding monkeys in their kitchen, taking food and soiling everything in sight.
Basically, the monkeys find their way into the house, using doors. Not breaking in through the windows, but actually like. Using the proper entrance.
I wish I could locate the video. It was insane. Youtube maybe, I'll check.
that freaks me out to no end
Anji Basket Case Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 15914
October 3rd, 2007 at 12:45pm
Cobra:
Kurtni:
Thats debateable. Some primates have been identified with characteristics very similar to humans. they have the ability to reason and use tools. Obviously, they're no where near as advanced as us. But in their own way, they have advanced their society, They don't rely on instinct alone to function anymore.
I have images of a monkey in a business suit now.
Animals frequently show great intelligence. It's no secret. It's just that they're so terribly underestimated.
The Kea parrot, for example. Numerous test show just how eminent her intelligence really is and how much she thrives on team work.
That's great and all, but there is a very, immensely large step between intellegence and logical thinking to thinking in the abstract with themes like love, God, time, etc. A parrot may be able to say things and do quite impressive maths for such an animal, but using even it's most broad vocabulary, there has yet been a talking parrot who can fluently discuss their beliefs in like existance, and stuff. Apparently, these scientists asked the world's smartest parrot to subtract three from three, and the parrot just didn't know the answer, because animals find it very difficult to accept the idea of nothingness or 'zero'. We've been taught about it since we were born, so we just accept it like that, but it is an abstract concept to understand and one which very few, if not then no animal actually understands.
Getting off the topic though, my original comment was animals do no have responsibilities.
newagecarny Was Here Two Weeks Ago Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 42495
October 3rd, 2007 at 01:13pm
Anji:
That's great and all, but there is a very, immensely large step between intellegence and logical thinking to thinking in the abstract with themes like love, God, time, etc. A parrot may be able to say things and do quite impressive maths for such an animal, but using even it's most broad vocabulary, there has yet been a talking parrot who can fluently discuss their beliefs in like existance, and stuff. Apparently, these scientists asked the world's smartest parrot to subtract three from three, and the parrot just didn't know the answer, because animals find it very difficult to accept the idea of nothingness or 'zero'. We've been taught about it since we were born, so we just accept it like that, but it is an abstract concept to understand and one which very few, if not then no animal actually understands.
Getting off the topic though, my original comment was animals do no have responsibilities.
Well I do agree with you on that. However, animals do have big similarities with humans, behavior-wise. Darwin claimed there isn't that big of a difference between psychological processes of humans and those of animals. Comparative psychologists still observe the behavior of animals in order to get answers to human behavior.
But saying that an animal is no different than a human being with abilities to think in abstract, or to communicate more thoroughly for example, is just nonsense.
Over the years we have developed so much that we are indeed a species of our own. Plain and simple.
bi_bu_ra Rotting On Here Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 49428
October 3rd, 2007 at 07:53pm
Like cannibals would think: "Oh, I won't eat human meat because people are living beings, they have feelings" and a similar crap.
Sylar Falling In Love With The Board Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 5703
October 4th, 2007 at 03:16am
^ Again the the intelligence issue comes up.
Whilst animals ARE intelligent beings, we humans are the only ones to excercise the ability to know right and wrong, feel regret and to consider consequences.
Garrett Hanlund This Board Is My Home Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 30801
October 4th, 2007 at 03:36am
Tokyo Hardcore:
^ Again the the intelligence issue comes up.
Whilst animals ARE intelligent beings, we humans are the only ones to excercise the ability to know right and wrong, feel regret and to consider consequences.
Then can how can you train a dog not to shit on the carpet for example?
Sylar Falling In Love With The Board Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 5703
October 4th, 2007 at 03:39am
Because they're smart enough to know that if they 'shit on the carpet' then they will be punished.
Anji Basket Case Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 15914
October 4th, 2007 at 06:34pm
Tokyo Hardcore:
Because they're smart enough to know that if they 'shit on the carpet' then they will be punished.
So, they do know right and wrong. They also now commands and even how to talk or communicate. They can feel regret in an incorrect descision to 'shit on the carpet', as well as feel jealous, happy, angry, fury, etc. What they can't do, as I have said, is to think in the abstract. This gives them no actual responsibility towards anything because it's not a concept of thought to them, therefore they have no rights.
Garrett Hanlund This Board Is My Home Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 30801
October 5th, 2007 at 05:48am
Anji:
Tokyo Hardcore:
Because they're smart enough to know that if they 'shit on the carpet' then they will be punished.
So, they do know right and wrong. They also now commands and even how to talk or communicate. They can feel regret in an incorrect descision to 'shit on the carpet', as well as feel jealous, happy, angry, fury, etc. What they can't do, as I have said, is to think in the abstract. This gives them no actual responsibility towards anything because it's not a concept of thought to them, therefore they have no rights.
Thank you.
Sylar Falling In Love With The Board Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 5703
October 5th, 2007 at 07:49am
No, they don't know 'right and wrong'.
They know they're going to get a shoe up the ass if they do it. Not that it's wrong. All we're doing is taking the animal away from it's natural environment, and forcing it to comply with our will. The animal only knows punishment.
I'm not sure I can actually make any more clear
Anji Basket Case Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 15914
October 5th, 2007 at 03:21pm
Tokyo Hardcore:
No, they don't know 'right and wrong'.
They know they're going to get a shoe up the ass if they do it. Not that it's wrong. All we're doing is taking the animal away from it's natural environment, and forcing it to comply with our will. The animal only knows punishment.
I'm not sure I can actually make any more clear
Maybe they don't know wrong in right in the same sense which we recognise it as, but they do no good and bad, and in your terms, punishment = bad, no punishment/treat = good. Whether or not they can rocognise that it's right or wrong is something I highly doubt that we'll ever know.
if you look at communities of chimps, they have a dominate leader, or alpha male, who establishes ground rules and things like that. chimps know to follow those, and they function together as a society. Now, are their definitions of right and wrong anything like ours? No, not even close. But they do have the ability to understand customs, no matter how they compare to ours.
Garrett Hanlund This Board Is My Home Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 30801
October 6th, 2007 at 12:19am
Anji:
Tokyo Hardcore:
No, they don't know 'right and wrong'.
They know they're going to get a shoe up the ass if they do it. Not that it's wrong. All we're doing is taking the animal away from it's natural environment, and forcing it to comply with our will. The animal only knows punishment.
I'm not sure I can actually make any more clear
Maybe they don't know wrong in right in the same sense which we recognise it as, but they do no good and bad, and in your terms, punishment = bad, no punishment/treat = good. Whether or not they can rocognise that it's right or wrong is something I highly doubt that we'll ever know.
What Anji said.
And don't insult my intelligence, please.
cabot gal GSBitch Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 76863
October 6th, 2007 at 12:59am
Isn't the thing that stops most people from commiting crime is the consequence of a punishment? We know right and wrong from what will get us sent to jail.
Dogs know right and wrong from what gets them punished. This is how they're trained.
Sylar Falling In Love With The Board Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 5703
October 7th, 2007 at 10:30am
Veritas:
Anji:
Tokyo Hardcore:
No, they don't know 'right and wrong'.
They know they're going to get a shoe up the ass if they do it. Not that it's wrong. All we're doing is taking the animal away from it's natural environment, and forcing it to comply with our will. The animal only knows punishment.
I'm not sure I can actually make any more clear
Maybe they don't know wrong in right in the same sense which we recognise it as, but they do no good and bad, and in your terms, punishment = bad, no punishment/treat = good. Whether or not they can rocognise that it's right or wrong is something I highly doubt that we'll ever know.
What Anji said.
And don't insult my intelligence, please.
So all in all, you don't actually have an argument to make against my point. Pointless post on your behalf really.
It was insane. Youtube maybe, I'll check.
I have images of a monkey in a business suit now.