''Freedom has its limits''

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NeoSteph
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February 2nd, 2006 at 12:48pm
That is the quote that was read on the news just 5 minutes ago.

It was in responce to the Danish Cartoon depicting Mohammed as a terrorist, obviously the cartoon is a satire, which was made as a joke not with the intentions of racial hatred, yet the Muslim world in Europe is in uproar. Yet the same magazines and plenty others across the world have openly poked fun at Christianity and Judaism, yet people of those faiths have chosen to ignore those who do not believe. So why is it different this time?

The Muslim community have said that this is a personal attack on their religion, saying that freedom of expression should be limited, with the latest bill in Parliament being passed by the house of lords, banning any inciteful hatred with intent of violence, how do we tell the difference between Satire and Threat.
Matt Smith
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February 2nd, 2006 at 01:04pm
Aha. Ironically, we debated this issue in RE class only yesterday. I had considered making a topic on it.

We also had a vote on it...The group was pretty much split 50-50. My opinion was; Freedom of speech is the key issue here. If we stop certain jokes from being told, we are limiting a person's basic human rights to speak as they wish. However, this issue has a certain grey area. Where does the joke stop? Is it inciting racial hatred?.

As you say, this has been going on for years with Christians. Even when I was still a member of that faith, I personally was guilty of telling the jokes which poked fun at my then religion. Because I found them funny.

I have serious issues with the quote; "Freedom has it's limits". Purely because that is quite an oxymoronic stament. Although, I do agree that having comedians publically tell these jokes should have it's limits. Within a small group of people, however, I see no problem.

But this is a subject with plenty of scope for debate...both sides have good arguments.
the madcap laughs
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February 2nd, 2006 at 01:08pm
Free speech...I'm all for it, people should be able to say whatever they feel like, gwe should have the right to express ourselves

However, when it comes to death threats and violence etc. aimed at a person/group for religious, racist, prejudiced reasons...that's when it needs to be stopped, in my opinion
NeoSteph
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February 2nd, 2006 at 01:15pm
I think the responce to this cartoon has gone to far, Middle Eastern business' have refused to accept Danish retailers and protests outside the Danish embassy in major countries. What are they trying to achieve silence of the press which is a rather moronic approach, seeing as it's the media that voices our opinions, good or bad.

They are angry because Mohammed is a peaceful prophet that has been typecasted in a cartoon as a terrorist, yet one of the largest gatherings of Muslims have elected a group whose Islamist value are in conflict to democratic values of freedom of speech, something i find rather ironic. Hamas values have a more blunt political tool, the bomb.
Lucifers Angel
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February 2nd, 2006 at 03:23pm
NeoSteph:
That is the quote that was read on the news just 5 minutes ago.

It was in responce to the Danish Cartoon depicting Mohammed as a terrorist, obviously the cartoon is a satire, which was made as a joke not with the intentions of racial hatred, yet the Muslim world in Europe is in uproar. Yet the same magazines and plenty others across the world have openly poked fun at Christianity and Judaism, yet people of those faiths have chosen to ignore those who do not believe. So why is it different this time?

The Muslim community have said that this is a personal attack on their religion, saying that freedom of expression should be limited, with the latest bill in Parliament being passed by the house of lords, banning any inciteful hatred with intent of violence, how do we tell the difference between Satire and Threat.


The MP Boris Johnson was just on the radio saying that we shouldnt sugar coat evrything for the muslims and it was just a use of free speach and i have to admit that i agree with him.
Matt Smith
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February 2nd, 2006 at 03:35pm
tre_cool_is_god:
The MP Boris Johnson was just on the radio saying that we shouldnt sugar coat evrything for the muslims and it was just a use of free speach and i have to admit that i agree with him.

I can't stand the man.

Those comments about Hillsborough...Sickening. Drunken fans at the back of the crowd, indeed. He didn't even know how many died that day. Then again, Hillsborough is one of those things I take more seriously than others may do.

Although I (grudgingly) admit. He may have a point.
Lucifers Angel
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February 2nd, 2006 at 03:37pm
Bloodraine:
tre_cool_is_god:
The MP Boris Johnson was just on the radio saying that we shouldnt sugar coat evrything for the muslims and it was just a use of free speach and i have to admit that i agree with him.

I can't stand the man.

Those comments about Hillsborough...Sickening. Drunken fans at the back of the crowd, indeed. He didn't even know how many died that day. Then again, Hillsborough is one of those things I take more seriously than others may do.

Although I (grudgingly) admit. He may have a point.


yeah what he said about hilsborough was out of line and your right sickening. but he does have a point.
A New Wave Gospel
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February 2nd, 2006 at 03:58pm
I agree with that, suger coating what we say could prevent terorisim in a way.
Nine_Inch_Nails
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February 2nd, 2006 at 04:03pm
I think freedom of speech is one of the most important things in life.
If the Muslims want to get offended over it, then that's their choice. But even then, there's probably some Muslims who find it funny and stuff. There will always be people who get offended, no matter what you try to do.
NeoSteph
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February 2nd, 2006 at 06:09pm
update: Muslim groups have threaten to kidnapp and murder any editor who publishes the cartoon.

They feel their being discriminated against because of a cartoon, i feel that hard-working journalist are being threatened and persucuted because of a joke, they are hypocritical and ignorant to their own beliefs, I hope every national newspaper in Europe prints that cartoon as a protest to that disgusting threat.
Super Black Market Karlee
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February 2nd, 2006 at 07:28pm
A joke is just that: a joke. I understand that the Muslims are offended, but like Alex said, there probably ARE some Muslims who saw the cartoon and laughed. Nobody can say, or for that matter, write, anything without running the risk of offending a certain group of people.

And imagine if Christians and Jews got as offended when someone publicly poked fun at their religion. BAM! There goes half the freaking planet Rolling Eyes The Muslims are taking this way too seriously, like I said before, Christians have endured this type of thing for centuries. It's almost become politically and socially acceptable to make fun of Christians. To use Green Day as an example: If they had called 'Jesus of Suburbia' something else like 'Buddha of Suburbia' or 'Muhammad of Suburbia' they would have been denounced as prejudiced and totally innapropriate. To put it in the extremely daft and probably really blunt words of my boyfriend: Suck it up and deal. Other groups have had to put up with this before without trying to blow people up, so why should you be any different?

P.S. I agree with NeoSteph, I think every newspaper in Europe should print that cartoon in protest.
A New Wave Gospel
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February 3rd, 2006 at 03:16am
Vader_Darth:
I agree with that, suger coating what we say could prevent terorisim in a way.


I retract my last statement, as I was watching the news last night and this story was on, I realised why should we walk on eggshells just for them?
I mean they've only reacted in the way cartoon suggests, with TERROSIM, they've kidnapped some German guy and are now holding him at GUNPOINT with (as far as I know) no ransom.
So I just think what is the fucking point, the cartoon was obviously truthful, weather it was a joke or not!
fender
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February 3rd, 2006 at 06:21am
i think that the muslims have totally over reacted, every day a different group of people is targeted to amuse society, thats where alot of humour comes from- e.g. sitcoms. we use stereotyping for amusment and thats all that cartoon has done stereotype to amuse the public. if it was any other religion, race or 'group' than no one would make this bigger deal. ok some one might write in with a compliant to the editor, buts that it. taking some one hostage because of a cartoon is rediculous. i can however see it from a slightly different prospective, imagine being a muslim in modern society, every one is scared of them, that they have a bomb in thier pocket and about to blow some thing up. with the media taking the piss out of them as well especially using bombs then the majority of oppinions towards them are going to become more negative. thought i still think they over reacted, they should have gone about dealing with it in a more peacful way!
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February 3rd, 2006 at 07:52am
They need to get over it.

Other people deal with being made fun of, but not the muslims. Oh no, They telling on on your mommy. Rolling Eyes
Lucifers Angel
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February 3rd, 2006 at 07:57am
i feal offened that they are trying to take anyway our right to free speach, if they dont want to see cartoons about them then there is a country that they can go to and its called Pakistan.
fender
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February 3rd, 2006 at 08:12am
i think that they shouldnt be able to dictate what we do in our countries if they are asylum seekers because its not thier place. they do not have to look at the cartoon, they choose to. so they can't blame other people for it. I also think that thye should not be alowed to take some one hostage for simply expressing them selves...freedom of speech is a human right (which i often have to familiarise teachers with!) so they shouldnt be allowed to take that away from us, but then in us not letting them take away our freedom of speech is that jepordising thiers?
Lucifers Angel
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February 3rd, 2006 at 08:33am
fender:
i think that they shouldnt be able to dictate what we do in our countries if they are asylum seekers because its not thier place. they do not have to look at the cartoon, they choose to. so they can't blame other people for it. I also think that thye should not be alowed to take some one hostage for simply expressing them selves...freedom of speech is a human right (which i often have to familiarise teachers with!) so they shouldnt be allowed to take that away from us, but then in us not letting them take away our freedom of speech is that jepordising thiers?


if they took away freedom of speach nobody would talk to anyone. Because w wouldnt know what to say and wouldnt want to talk about the wrong things just in case we were prosecuted.
fender
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February 3rd, 2006 at 08:51am
tre_cool_is_god:
fender:
i think that they shouldnt be able to dictate what we do in our countries if they are asylum seekers because its not thier place. they do not have to look at the cartoon, they choose to. so they can't blame other people for it. I also think that thye should not be alowed to take some one hostage for simply expressing them selves...freedom of speech is a human right (which i often have to familiarise teachers with!) so they shouldnt be allowed to take that away from us, but then in us not letting them take away our freedom of speech is that jepordising thiers?


if they took away freedom of speach nobody would talk to anyone. Because w wouldnt know what to say and wouldnt want to talk about the wrong things just in case we were prosecuted.


yeah thats true but when we decided that they cant take away ours by not letting us make cartoons and what have you we took away thiers because we are disenabling them to put thier oppinion forward. i do totally agree that what they are doing is wrong. but i can however see thier point of view.
Lucifers Angel
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February 3rd, 2006 at 09:10am
fender:
tre_cool_is_god:
fender:
i think that they shouldnt be able to dictate what we do in our countries if they are asylum seekers because its not thier place. they do not have to look at the cartoon, they choose to. so they can't blame other people for it. I also think that thye should not be alowed to take some one hostage for simply expressing them selves...freedom of speech is a human right (which i often have to familiarise teachers with!) so they shouldnt be allowed to take that away from us, but then in us not letting them take away our freedom of speech is that jepordising thiers?


if they took away freedom of speach nobody would talk to anyone. Because w wouldnt know what to say and wouldnt want to talk about the wrong things just in case we were prosecuted.


yeah thats true but when we decided that they cant take away ours by not letting us make cartoons and what have you we took away thiers because we are disenabling them to put thier oppinion forward. i do totally agree that what they are doing is wrong. but i can however see thier point of view.


but many people got offened when there was a cartoon done of christ on a toilet having a conversation with tony blair, and they had many e mails and letters saying that they were offened but that doesnt stop them so why should they be allowed to stop somthing getting published when the westerners can't?
Emmer-x
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February 3rd, 2006 at 09:13am
yea!!!!! Smile
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