there shouldnt be an outright ban on skinny models. it wouldnt be fair on people who are naturally skinny. it also would give out the impression that being naturally skinny is 'bad'. there should be a mix of curvy/ larger models and skinny ones. that way everyone is represented by the fashion industry and designers might start designing fashionable/attractive clothes for larger/curvier women like myself.
but just becuase you like curvier models doesnt mean the designers do, so why should your personal opinion of whats needed effect how they model their fashion?
Alot of you are acting as if only thin models exist... thats not true, I hope you're all aware.
Anji Basket Case Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 15914
September 25th, 2006 at 07:52am
Coff:
You do all realise that the girls who are being banned are really really dangerously thin? Not just a little bit thin, but "Oh my god we can see her bones sticking out" thin.
Its not because they have a certain body type because trust me, if you skin is basically draping off your skin, its not natural.
Well, fashion is a passion, and an art. I'm sorry if you think it's sick, but I think that putting a dangerously skinny girl on a cat walk draped in skimpy lingerie is very artistic. Kinda like the photographer who took pictures on naked fat women models. It's art. It's expressionism. Of course for a commercial design company, it's a bit risque I guess, but that's their decision. I just think the values of design as a form of art are being affected.
lyrical_mess Falling In Love With The Board Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 5278
September 25th, 2006 at 10:32am
I honestly cannot believe how under-informed and obstinate some people here are being! What have I been saying? What has NeoSteph been saying? For God's sake, it's that the model is thin. It's that the model is unhealthy, dangerously skinny, a hazard to herself and the people who look up to her. Between photo shoots and runway shows and everyone lauding her for her figure and telling her she's 'perfect', where will she find time to change, to become thin, but not unhealthy. Thin is healthy when your stomach is flat, when you're at perfect weight for your height and body type, when your thighs don't blubber and when you don't have cellulite.
Thin is unhealthy when your BMI is under 17, when people can see your ribs in a bathing suit, when your cheekbones poke out and you look like a fish, when it hurts to sit down. Who wants to live like that, when they know that it can be fixed with time and help? No one, that's who. Including models. Yes, it makes them money. Yes, they love being adored and seen and praised and being beautiful. But do they love being sick? Think about it.
This ban is as much for the models as it is for their fans and viewers. It's actually more in the interest of the models. Maybe if unhealthy weight loss gets them rejected from jobs, it will help them curb this obsessive need to be sticky-bone people.
I honestly cannot believe how under-informed and obstinate some people here are being! What have I been saying? What has NeoSteph been saying? For God's sake, it's that the model is thin. It's that the model is unhealthy, dangerously skinny, a hazard to herself and the people who look up to her. Between photo shoots and runway shows and everyone lauding her for her figure and telling her she's 'perfect', where will she find time to change, to become thin, but not unhealthy. Thin is healthy when your stomach is flat, when you're at perfect weight for your height and body type, when your thighs don't blubber and when you don't have cellulite.
Thin is unhealthy when your BMI is under 17, when people can see your ribs in a bathing suit, when your cheekbones poke out and you look like a fish, when it hurts to sit down. Who wants to live like that, when they know that it can be fixed with time and help? No one, that's who. Including models. Yes, it makes them money. Yes, they love being adored and seen and praised and being beautiful. But do they love being sick? Think about it.
This ban is as much for the models as it is for their fans and viewers. It's actually more in the interest of the models. Maybe if unhealthy weight loss gets them rejected from jobs, it will help them curb this obsessive need to be sticky-bone people.
Im sorry, but it's extremely narrow minded to assume we are uninformed because we disagree with you and degrading to others opinions. Perhaps you're the one who's uninformed.
I will agree with you, what you said holds true to the average person. However, Models do not always meet this standward for average. If you have an Ectomorphic type body (which is what the majority of models have, agencies look for this type of thing) you have a very difficult time gaining weight due to the structure of your body and metabloism amungst other things, it's also very hard for you to gain muscle mass. That can greately affect your BMI and make it signifigantly lower than normal, or once again, average Alot of atheletes that are very muscular have the opposite problem with BMI's due to the fact that a large portion of their weight is made up of muscel tissue, which can give them a reading suggesting they are over weight. Any model with a BMI of 18 or less was banned. 5 models were. They were all 5 ft. 7 in. tall and weighed less than 121. 7 lb.s.
You can not have standards like that, because not everyone is the same. On that fact, no two people are exactly the same and shouldnt be judged the same way. This ban is stupid and pointless. it resulted in models being treated unfairly, and if anyone in this thread seriously believes the modeling industry is to blame for eating disorders, I think you need to take into consideration that there are many facotrs affecting people who may have eating disorders and are unhealthy, Models are just the latest scapegoat.
lyrical_mess Falling In Love With The Board Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 5278
September 26th, 2006 at 03:55am
I_worship_tre_Cool:
lyrical_gaah52:
I honestly cannot believe how under-informed and obstinate some people here are being! What have I been saying? What has NeoSteph been saying? For God's sake, it's that the model is thin. It's that the model is unhealthy, dangerously skinny, a hazard to herself and the people who look up to her. Between photo shoots and runway shows and everyone lauding her for her figure and telling her she's 'perfect', where will she find time to change, to become thin, but not unhealthy. Thin is healthy when your stomach is flat, when you're at perfect weight for your height and body type, when your thighs don't blubber and when you don't have cellulite.
Thin is unhealthy when your BMI is under 17, when people can see your ribs in a bathing suit, when your cheekbones poke out and you look like a fish, when it hurts to sit down. Who wants to live like that, when they know that it can be fixed with time and help? No one, that's who. Including models. Yes, it makes them money. Yes, they love being adored and seen and praised and being beautiful. But do they love being sick? Think about it.
This ban is as much for the models as it is for their fans and viewers. It's actually more in the interest of the models. Maybe if unhealthy weight loss gets them rejected from jobs, it will help them curb this obsessive need to be sticky-bone people.
Im sorry, but it's extremely narrow minded to assume we are uninformed because we disagree with you and degrading to others opinions. Perhaps you're the one who's uninformed.
I will agree with you, what you said holds true to the average person. However, Models do not always meet this standward for average. If you have an Ectomorphic type body (which is what the majority of models have, agencies look for this type of thing) you have a very difficult time gaining weight due to the structure of your body and metabloism amungst other things, it's also very hard for you to gain muscle mass. That can greately affect your BMI and make it signifigantly lower than normal, or once again, average Alot of atheletes that are very muscular have the opposite problem with BMI's due to the fact that a large portion of their weight is made up of muscel tissue, which can give them a reading suggesting they are over weight. Any model with a BMI of 18 or less was banned. 5 models were. They were all 5 ft. 7 in. tall and weighed less than 121. 7 lb.s.
You can not have standards like that, because not everyone is the same. On that fact, no two people are exactly the same and shouldnt be judged the same way. This ban is stupid and pointless. it resulted in models being treated unfairly, and if anyone in this thread seriously believes the modeling industry is to blame for eating disorders, I think you need to take into consideration that there are many facotrs affecting people who may have eating disorders and are unhealthy, Models are just the latest scapegoat.
You do know that body type and metabolism are taken into account for calculating BMI, don't you? BMI= Body Mass Index. It's just a proportion. No two people are the same, I agree. But BMI takes those differences into account. If you get tested by a physician, you will see that BMI has to do with metabolism, body frame, body type, height, weight, etc and takes health problems into accounts as well.
If there's someone who has very high metabolism and keeps losing weight no matter how much they eat, there's a good chance they can grow hungry and weak at any time of day. Obviously, models and their agents would try and keep this from happening, but I don't think it's a good idea to let someone like that walk up and down a runway when she can faint easily and get hurt. Do you?
Pretty Like Drugs King For A Couple Of Days Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 2643
September 26th, 2006 at 05:57am
Incubus:
Capri:
Coff:
Capri:
I have a friend Sam. She's quite thin, is 'seriously underweight' in the words of the school nurse after having taken her body mass. She gets called names along the lines of 'anorexic' and 'Twiggy'. However, I know what and how she eats. It's a very balanced diet, and she always eats in moderation. Not perfect, she does include some junk food in her diet, but not too much or two little. My point is, some people ARE naturally thin like that. She may not have bones sticking out but according to the BMI she's not normal, either.
As I said, when it gets to the point where you skin just drapes off your bones, that is no longer normal. You even said that she doesn't have bones sticking out, so we're not talking about someone like her, are we?
As I'm sure you're aware, they are not judging the models by their looks but body mass. If someone like Sam were to go up for selection, she'd be unfairly turned away
Or at least she would be if her BM was under 18.5
Personally I think they're going about this the wrong way. They should not be banning skinny models -that's just sending out the message its wrong when it's not, some people are naturally like that- they should be encouraging fuller shapes onto the cat walk as well as thin ones.
It was a bad move for the fashion world to decide to only take thin models, and its an equally bad one to only take cruvy girls, there needs to be a fair balance.
Well they didn't give me an exact number, but it was serious enough for the nurse to contact her parents because apparently they should be 'concerned'. They weren't, of course. They knew what they were feeding her and how much of it, there was no cause to worry.
Plus, I agree with everything else you wrote.
Pretty Like Drugs King For A Couple Of Days Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 2643
September 26th, 2006 at 05:59am
I_worship_tre_Cool:
Alot of you are acting as if only thin models exist... thats not true, I hope you're all aware.
I am aware, didn't I talk about Dove's campaign for natural beauty and the models they used? However the fact remains the overwhelming majority of models are very thin, that's the strongest message of beauty that's coming across.
I hate skinny models, I mean they just look ill a lot of them... ok so some people are naturally skinny but there should be more variety in models, because you never see a size 12 or 14 model now do you? And I'm size 10 but I'm only 14 so people say I'm fat... whatever... and it's healthier to be overweight than underweight, though obviously it's healthier to be normal weight.
Oh, and is it just me or are a lot of these models not actually pretty? I mean everyone goes on about how beautiful Kate Moss is but I think she's really, really, not. I can't stand her, not just 'cause she's rich and admired but because of the whole cocaine thing...
Oh, and is it just me or are a lot of these models not actually pretty? I mean everyone goes on about how beautiful Kate Moss is but I think she's really, really, not. I can't stand her, not just 'cause she's rich and admired but because of the whole cocaine thing...
i agree, Kate Moss has become more famous than ever sinsce that cocaine scandal, she has been getting more work and richer from it. that is giving out a negative image which goes something along the lines of 'do hard drugs and you will get rich and famous.' that is not a good example to set.
Oh, and is it just me or are a lot of these models not actually pretty? I mean everyone goes on about how beautiful Kate Moss is but I think she's really, really, not. I can't stand her, not just 'cause she's rich and admired but because of the whole cocaine thing...
i agree, Kate Moss has become more famous than ever sinsce that cocaine scandal, she has been getting more work and richer from it. that is giving out a negative image which goes something along the lines of 'do hard drugs and you will get rich and famous.' that is not a good example to set.
Kate Moss was famous way before the "cocaine scandal". This is getting of the point somewhat, and anyway Kate Moss isn't half as skinny as some models, I mean she is thin but not as sickeningly thin as I've seen some models.
You do know that body type and metabolism are taken into account for calculating BMI, don't you? BMI= Body Mass Index. It's just a proportion. No two people are the same, I agree. But BMI takes those differences into account. If you get tested by a physician, you will see that BMI has to do with metabolism, body frame, body type, height, weight, etc and takes health problems into accounts as well.
If there's someone who has very high metabolism and keeps losing weight no matter how much they eat, there's a good chance they can grow hungry and weak at any time of day. Obviously, models and their agents would try and keep this from happening, but I don't think it's a good idea to let someone like that walk up and down a runway when she can faint easily and get hurt. Do you?
You need to get your facts in order before you go assuming things, because evidently you dont even know what a BMI is...
An individual's BMI is found by taking their body weight divided by the square of the height, thats it. None of the other things you said are taken into consideration. before you go argueing it's best to make sure you understand the subject at hand.
I hate skinny models, I mean they just look ill a lot of them... ok so some people are naturally skinny but there should be more variety in models, because you never see a size 12 or 14 model now do you? And I'm size 10 but I'm only 14 so people say I'm fat... whatever... and it's healthier to be overweight than underweight, though obviously it's healthier to be normal weight.
Oh, and is it just me or are a lot of these models not actually pretty? I mean everyone goes on about how beautiful Kate Moss is but I think she's really, really, not. I can't stand her, not just 'cause she's rich and admired but because of the whole cocaine thing...
You know what I dislike? Judegmental people. I gurantee you that you know none of those models you hate so much personally and have absolutely no right to judge them, thats rude. I think you should also take a look at this sites rules on hate policies
Even if you choose to dislike that, it really doesnt matter. You are not the person who designs the clothes and who has to profit off of them, so therefor your opinion is irrelevant in the type of model they choose to use for their clothes. If you want to see a different kind of model, endorse brands that use them or become a successful designer yourself.
As for Kate Moss, I find it pretty sick that you're holding a grudge against someone you don't even know first off. Secondly, she changed. She went through rehab and became a healthier person and learned how to control her addiction, and you hate her for that? To me that shows a strong person, one who is willing to admitt they made mistakes and has the courgae to fix them. It's pretty lame to hate someone who did that, honestly I think it's lame to hate someone for any reason. Hate is stupid and problematic.
As for your statement about being overweight is healthy... well you just tell me if these things sound healthy, all can be caused by obesity:
Hypertension
Dyslipidemia (for example, high total cholesterol or high levels of triglycerides)
diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis
Sleep apnea and respiratory problems
i agree, Kate Moss has become more famous than ever sinsce that cocaine scandal, she has been getting more work and richer from it. that is giving out a negative image which goes something along the lines of 'do hard drugs and you will get rich and famous.' that is not a good example to set.
Kate Moss lost EVERYTHING from her cocaine scandal. She was surrounded with terrible press, I mean for months after the only thing people would quote her to was saying "Fuck off, Fuck off, Fuck Off, Fuck Off, Just Fuck offf" to the person taking her picture and waving the magazine cover with her snorting on it. She lost her modeling contract with her agencies. Her whole life basically caved in and she wasn't even a model anymore.
Then Kate came to realization with what had happened and what her life was becoming and she was the strong person and fixed her life and went through rehab You're all acting as if she is a terrible person who is out their telling little kiddies to go snort ten lines. She is not, shes the opposite. She made mistakes and learned from them, is that a horrible thing? No. Instead of letting it rule her life, she changed it.
lyrical_mess Falling In Love With The Board Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 5278
September 27th, 2006 at 01:17am
I_worship_tre_Cool:
anti-christ of suburbia:
i agree, Kate Moss has become more famous than ever sinsce that cocaine scandal, she has been getting more work and richer from it. that is giving out a negative image which goes something along the lines of 'do hard drugs and you will get rich and famous.' that is not a good example to set.
Kate Moss lost EVERYTHING from her cocaine scandal. She was surrounded with terrible press, I mean for months after the only thing people would quote her to was saying "Fuck off, Fuck off, Fuck Off, Fuck Off, Just Fuck offf" to the person taking her picture and waving the magazine cover with her snorting on it. She lost her modeling contract with her agencies. Her whole life basically caved in and she wasn't even a model anymore.
Then Kate came to realization with what had happened and what her life was becoming and she was the strong person and fixed her life and went through rehab You're all acting as if she is a terrible person who is out their telling little kiddies to go snort ten lines. She is not, shes the opposite. She made mistakes and learned from them, is that a horrible thing? No. Instead of letting it rule her life, she changed it.
Thi,s I agree with, even if it's totally off topic. You can't hate someone because of a problem they have. And being fat is NOT healthier than being underweight. Both are extremely dangerous. I should know, I'm overweight. It's not good.
Kate Moss fought with her problems and won. People do it everyday and it's in the newspaper. I don't see how that's wrong or bad or evil. If anything, it encourages people to do the same and fight their own evils.
And I_worship_tre_cool, I had my BMI tested by a real doctor. They measure your body type/frame. Your BMI is different if you have a thin frame than if you have a medium frame or large frame. I'm assuming that models have thin frames (maybe even as a prerequisite).
But I must take back some of my words. I don't think anyone knows the process through which models are being rejected. All they're showing in the news is that they're banning the underweight ones. And according to some research I did, the majority of models are not bulumic or anorexic. They have health experts to help them keep up a healthy weight. I'm not quite sure, but I think it's the ones with problems who are being rejected. Or perhaps because they are unable to keep a healthy weight for their height. That's not good for the model at all!
And even though the unhealthy, underweight models enjoy modelling and working, there's a line between fair and unfair. Is it unfair to keep a man from having fun on a roller coaster just because he has a heart attack. But then again, these models do this for food. This is their living.
Honestly, after reading what I read in newspapers and internet articles as well as this thread, I'm at a loss for what to think.
I hate skinny models, I mean they just look ill a lot of them... ok so some people are naturally skinny but there should be more variety in models, because you never see a size 12 or 14 model now do you? And I'm size 10 but I'm only 14 so people say I'm fat... whatever... and it's healthier to be overweight than underweight, though obviously it's healthier to be normal weight.
Oh, and is it just me or are a lot of these models not actually pretty? I mean everyone goes on about how beautiful Kate Moss is but I think she's really, really, not. I can't stand her, not just 'cause she's rich and admired but because of the whole cocaine thing...
You know what I dislike? Judegmental people. I gurantee you that you know none of those models you hate so much personally and have absolutely no right to judge them, thats rude. I think you should also take a look at this sites rules on hate policies
Even if you choose to dislike that, it really doesnt matter. You are not the person who designs the clothes and who has to profit off of them, so therefor your opinion is irrelevant in the type of model they choose to use for their clothes. If you want to see a different kind of model, endorse brands that use them or become a successful designer yourself.
As for Kate Moss, I find it pretty sick that you're holding a grudge against someone you don't even know first off. Secondly, she changed. She went through rehab and became a healthier person and learned how to control her addiction, and you hate her for that? To me that shows a strong person, one who is willing to admitt they made mistakes and has the courgae to fix them. It's pretty lame to hate someone who did that, honestly I think it's lame to hate someone for any reason. Hate is stupid and problematic.
As for your statement about being overweight is healthy... well you just tell me if these things sound healthy, all can be caused by obesity:
Hypertension
Dyslipidemia (for example, high total cholesterol or high levels of triglycerides)
diabetes
Coronary heart disease
Stroke
Gallbladder disease
Osteoarthritis
Sleep apnea and respiratory problems
Yes, I didn't say it was healthy to be overweight, but it's healthier. I did say it was a lot, lot better to be healthy weight. And yes I know I've never met her but I can't stand the fact that she's earning so much for posing with lipstick. Yes, I suppose she did change. The person I feel worst for though is her daughter. How often do you see Kate Moss with her daughter? I suppose she's just trying to keep her out of the press but you do wonder if she actually bonds with her.
I know I'm judgemental and I'm biased because I don't like her or think she's attractive - and she's certainly not as thin as a lot of models - but I do think there should be less skinny models.
Actually, I got to admit, you guys have raised some pretty good arguments for my dislike of miss moss. Sadly it hasn't changed my view... but I'm not going to be posting stuff about it again.[/i]
Anji Basket Case Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 15914
September 27th, 2006 at 08:59am
Cat walk fashion shows though are an art. Just because something in art is explicit doesn't mean you should ban it.
Roisin-Marie King For A Couple Of Days Age: 100 Gender: Female Posts: 4955
September 27th, 2006 at 09:04am
i have no problems with models being skinny but i think they could get a few ordinary sized people in there too
Lucifers Angel King For A Couple Of Days Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 4751
September 27th, 2006 at 10:22am
P¤iSon L¤Ve:
i have no problems with models being skinny but i think they could get a few ordinary sized people in there too
there are more and more plus sized models getting into modeling!
Lucifers Angel King For A Couple Of Days Age: - Gender: Female Posts: 4751
September 27th, 2006 at 10:55am
WTF mhairi LOL:
Fat Achilles:
I hate skinny models, I mean they just look ill a lot of them... ok so some people are naturally skinny but there should be more variety in models, because you never see a size 12 or 14 model now do you? And I'm size 10 but I'm only 14 so people say I'm fat... whatever... and it's healthier to be overweight than underweight, though obviously it's healthier to be normal weight.
Oh, and is it just me or are a lot of these models not actually pretty? I mean everyone goes on about how beautiful Kate Moss is but I think she's really, really, not. I can't stand her, not just 'cause she's rich and admired but because of the whole cocaine thing...
How is it healthier to be overweight than underweight?
Runwalk models are different from supermodels. And just because you dont find Kate Moss attractive doesnt mean that other models are pretty. I think most models are geogous (sp?) and that banning skinny models is stupid unless they have anorexia or bulima.
Plus its not only skinny people who model. There are more and more plus size models everyday.
because you can be so under weight that it could kill you but saying that you can be so over weight that could kill you aswell, i didnt think of that.
because trust me, if you skin is basically draping off your skin, its not natural.