Banning skinny models.

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Lucifers Angel
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September 27th, 2006 at 11:00am
WTF mhairi LOL:
Lucifers Angel:


because you can be so under weight that it could kill you but saying that you can be so over weight that could kill you aswell, i didnt think of that.

but why is seeing a models rib cage a good thing?


Long time no see.

Its not a good thing, but its not necessarily a bad thing. Not every model has their ribs showing. You can see my ribs and im not anorexic or anything. Im just naturally skinny.


yeah you can see my daughters, and in fact you can see my sons (who is underweight) and he has to have a specific diet, he has to have things like chicken for breakfast and things like bean and potatoes, and i am so worried (like the Dr's are) anyway thats going a bit of topic.
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September 27th, 2006 at 06:04pm
Fat Achilles:



Yes, I didn't say it was healthy to be overweight, but it's healthier. I did say it was a lot, lot better to be healthy weight. And yes I know I've never met her but I can't stand the fact that she's earning so much for posing with lipstick. Yes, I suppose she did change. The person I feel worst for though is her daughter. How often do you see Kate Moss with her daughter? I suppose she's just trying to keep her out of the press but you do wonder if she actually bonds with her.
I know I'm judgemental and I'm biased because I don't like her or think she's attractive - and she's certainly not as thin as a lot of models - but I do think there should be less skinny models.
Actually, I got to admit, you guys have raised some pretty good arguments for my dislike of miss moss. Sadly it hasn't changed my view... but I'm not going to be posting stuff about it again.[/i]

Being over weight is most certainly not healthier than being underweight, they are to totally different concepts and both can be dangerous.

As for Kate Moss, I find it to be extremely shallow to judge someone based on looks. It's perfectly ok to say you dislike the way someone looks, especially models because thats what their carrer is based on, their image. But it is never ok to be stereotypical and judge someones personality based on the image you see. Emotions, intellegence, feelings and inner beauty are not effected in the slightest by how you appear physically, and a physical apperance is a terrible reason to judge a person. I also don't see how her daughter has any relevance in the discussion at hand...

Being someone who is extremely fashion centered, I think you need to do some research on what exactly it is that models do, because if you think they throw on lip stick and prance down a cat walk, you're extremely wrong. Being a model involved alot more than that.
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September 27th, 2006 at 06:09pm
lyrical_gaah52:


And I_worship_tre_cool, I had my BMI tested by a real doctor. They measure your body type/frame. Your BMI is different if you have a thin frame than if you have a medium frame or large frame. I'm assuming that models have thin frames (maybe even as a prerequisite).



No, it isnt. The same formula is used to determine everyones BMI. As I stated before, you take your weight divided by the square of your height, thats your BMI... No other factor aside from your height or weight effects your BMI. Your doctor may have considered other factors such as "Shes your with high metabloism, so it's ok that it's lower than normal" or in reverse that your atheletic and Muscle tissue will increase your BMI. Regurdless, your BMI is still the same.The Models in question also had their BMI's tested by real doctors, but they had a clear cut minimum, anything below wasnt accepted. No other factors were taken into consideration, this ban was unfair, simply put.
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September 28th, 2006 at 02:58am
I_worship_tre_Cool:
lyrical_gaah52:


And I_worship_tre_cool, I had my BMI tested by a real doctor. They measure your body type/frame. Your BMI is different if you have a thin frame than if you have a medium frame or large frame. I'm assuming that models have thin frames (maybe even as a prerequisite).



No, it isnt. The same formula is used to determine everyones BMI. As I stated before, you take your weight divided by the square of your height, thats your BMI... No other factor aside from your height or weight effects your BMI. Your doctor may have considered other factors such as "Shes your with high metabloism, so it's ok that it's lower than normal" or in reverse that your atheletic and Muscle tissue will increase your BMI. Regurdless, your BMI is still the same.The Models in question also had their BMI's tested by real doctors, but they had a clear cut minimum, anything below wasnt accepted. No other factors were taken into consideration, this ban was unfair, simply put.


Yeah, thats the simple way. But there is another way to determine it, I'm not sompletly sure how you do it, but it does take into account muscle, and so on.

As far as I know, anyways. I don't have a source or anything, because it was just mentioned in passing in one of my PDHPE theory classes, and since I wasn't too interested in what was being taught, I wasn't paying much attention.

But yeah, there is another way to determine your BMI, and it takes into account what is bodyfat, and what is not.
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September 28th, 2006 at 05:23pm
Coff:
I_worship_tre_Cool:
lyrical_gaah52:


And I_worship_tre_cool, I had my BMI tested by a real doctor. They measure your body type/frame. Your BMI is different if you have a thin frame than if you have a medium frame or large frame. I'm assuming that models have thin frames (maybe even as a prerequisite).



No, it isnt. The same formula is used to determine everyones BMI. As I stated before, you take your weight divided by the square of your height, thats your BMI... No other factor aside from your height or weight effects your BMI. Your doctor may have considered other factors such as "Shes your with high metabloism, so it's ok that it's lower than normal" or in reverse that your atheletic and Muscle tissue will increase your BMI. Regurdless, your BMI is still the same.The Models in question also had their BMI's tested by real doctors, but they had a clear cut minimum, anything below wasnt accepted. No other factors were taken into consideration, this ban was unfair, simply put.


Yeah, thats the simple way. But there is another way to determine it, I'm not sompletly sure how you do it, but it does take into account muscle, and so on.

As far as I know, anyways. I don't have a source or anything, because it was just mentioned in passing in one of my PDHPE theory classes, and since I wasn't too interested in what was being taught, I wasn't paying much attention.

But yeah, there is another way to determine your BMI, and it takes into account what is bodyfat, and what is not.

Thats a totally differnet calculation. The formula for BMI is simply weight divided by the square of your height. Thats it! If you add other factors in... then it is no longer your true BMI number, it's something different entirely. Body Fat percentage is another calculation that alot of people seem to be bringing up that has absolutely nothing to do with your BMI.
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October 10th, 2006 at 05:47pm
Doctors today issued their strongest call yet for superskinny models to be banned from the catwalk as it emerged size zero clothes are enjoying a sales boom in London.

In an open letter to the British Fashion Council, 40 doctors and health professionals at London's biggest eating disorders clinic demanded a ban on "models who are clearly anorexic".

"There is no doubt that there is cause and effect here," said Professor Janet Treasure of the Eating Disorders Service and Research Unit at King's College London.

"The fashion industry showcases models with extreme body shapes, and this is undoubtedly one of the factors leading to young girls developing eating disorders."

The letter has been prompted by a debate on size zero models, which began in the Evening Standard and followed the decision by the organisers of Madrid fashion week to ban models with a body mass index below 18 - classified as underweight by the World Health Organisation.


(Daily Mail on 10th October 2006. Ew. Yes, I feel like I did just violate some ancient code by quoting the Mail.)

Image


Lets get some dimensions here. American size zero - equivalent to UK size four. Size zero trousers are for a 22-inch waist - the average measurement of an eight-year-old girl. How is that healthy?. How is that safe?. How is having a BMI lower than 18 (severely underweight, I might add) a good thing?. Because these are the conditions models are forced to conform themselves to. Being extremely thin is dangerous. People die.

Clear medical evidence shows that being very underweight is a bad thing. Everyone got that?. Ok.

We've all heard about Amnesty International trying to help disadvantaged kids around the world by stopping them working in unsafe conditions which endanger their health. If the catwalk is a place where people are forced to endanger themselves by becoming incredibly underweight, then surely this is equally important and needs to be addressed?.

I'm not against Skinny models. Hey, I’m cool with that. Fashion designers want to use slim girls to model their clothes?. Fantastic idea. Models want to be thin because it helps them feel attractive?. Equally good.

When it gets to the point of endangering life and health? Some restrictions need to be imposed.
Trelovescookies
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October 10th, 2006 at 05:57pm
I don't understand the need to have skinny models.
Making clothes that half the world wont fit into...

However I read this quoate, and do see the point.
"You cannot ban skinny women in the same way you cannot ban fuller bodied women"

Terry Killeavy
UK
(although try agreeing with it after you see these)


Image
Image
I think another part of the issue is that they don't look healthy.


You may find this interesting
http://home.pb.net/~karyn1/pictures.htm

Would we ban overweight women aswell?
Kurtni
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October 10th, 2006 at 08:07pm
You guys can keep posting pictures of all the emaciated models you like but the fact of the matter is the models in question were no where near looking like that. and I will also add Skinny and emaciated are not the same thing, use the correct term please. BMI isnt accurate for everyone, as I have stated multiple times before, but of course everyone chooses to ignore that point because it would degrade your arguement. BMI is an average statistic, but get this, not every single person on this planet fits into that average category.

Reguardless of that, Designers do have the right to advertise and promote what they want, freedom of press. It may not be right, if the press wanted to print articles using models like that, they can. It may be obscene and graphic, but they still have a right to do that.

When models do become that emaciated however, they are truely endangering their carrerr more than anything, because major modeling companies don't want to have to deal with all the bullshit bad press that comes along with that, so rather than have bad media, it is much easier to cut a models contract.

As for the catwalk forcing people to endanger themselves, thats also untrue. Models can choose who and what they model for. If someone tells they need to have a 16 inch waist to model something they designed, thats fine. Some people have the type of body to where they can do that in a healthy way *coughDITAPLAYBOYCOVER16INCHWAISTcough* others however, end up getting too caught up in the industry and harming themselves.

Some people in this thread don't want skinny models simply because they dont like them. Honestly, your opinion of what looks good and bad has no relevance to that of the designer who makes the clothes.

Those who are actually concerened about the models who are endangering themselves, I do agree that yes, it is very unhealthy and unwise to starve yourself, or use an eating disorder as a way to lose weight. However, banning skinny models won't accomplish anything. All that will do will make agencies drop the shows that have those bans, and in turn, that fashion show will be gone. I HIGHLY doubt that Madrid is ever as popular in the fashion industry as it was. Because of the rash descions they made, modeling agencies have already began to drop that show. Even in this year alone, the number of models applying to that show was so signifigantly lower than usual, it was shocking. There might not even be a fashion week in Madrid next year if they keep that stupid ban in place.

What needs to happen is the agencies need to have health concerns in models contracts, and something as variable as BMI shouldnt be used, thats what aggitated me more about the ban than anything, the fact that they used BMI. It's so unreliable. Modeling agencies do keep detailed records of what their models do. If a model had a body type that made her BMI signifigantly lower than it should be, then that wouldnt hurt her carrer later. Yet the models with eating disorders, who actually are in danger, would lose their contract until the issues at hand are sorted out. You can't judge people based on things that vary so much as your waist line measurement or BMI or things such as that. In an industry where having that gazzel like body frame is so popular you have to take that into consideration. Most arguments on this subject are based on "average" statistics... well that is where the problem is... the people involved in this are not average.
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October 11th, 2006 at 10:01am
trelovescookies:
I don't understand the need to have skinny models.
Making clothes that half the world wont fit into...
ART!!! AAAAAART!!!

Do people not realise that this is all about aaaaaaart! They model fashion, they model attitude, they have their own persona on the runway, they act for the emphasise, it is a form of art. So wheather or not you are grossly thin, or sickeningly obese, modelling is an art and a form of expression and individuality. And you cannot ban that.
Uncle Fester
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October 11th, 2006 at 10:10am
yes but i no a girl that is really depressed cause she thinks shes fat. she is actually one of the skinnyest people i know. that is because half naked, almost anorexic wemon are on every magazine, on tons of tv shows and movies. she is not the only one, there are hundreds of thousands.

these models are setting an unrealistc perception of what the female body should look like. what most people dont know is that models are edited by coputer to look better

this is something that scares me...i ask a little girl what she wanted to do when she grew up. she said she wanted to get a rib removed, and become a model....she was five years old....they influence very young people as well
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October 11th, 2006 at 10:24am
Uncle Fester:
yes but i no a girl that is really depressed cause she thinks shes fat. she is actually one of the skinnyest people i know. that is because half naked, almost anorexic wemon are on every magazine, on tons of tv shows and movies. she is not the only one, there are hundreds of thousands.

these models are setting an unrealistc perception of what the female body should look like. what most people dont know is that models are edited by coputer to look better

this is something that scares me...i ask a little girl what she wanted to do when she grew up. she said she wanted to get a rib removed, and become a model....she was five years old....they influence very young people as well
Oh please, it's all blown over. Anorexics and bulimics usually are people living in denial. They all need help and they all need to realise that it is just art. Maybe they're being artistic too, who knows. I think it would look cool if my arms were the size of chair legs and my ribs jutted out ninety degrees from my stomach. But I know it's not good for my health. I still think it looks very unique to be extremely skinny.

Anyway, I know a five year old boy who wants to become a woman. Kids say the darndest things these days.
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October 11th, 2006 at 10:33am
I_worship_tre_Cool:
Most arguments on this subject are based on "average" statistics... well that is where the problem is... the people involved in this are not average.

Which is what a Body Mass Index chart is used for.
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October 11th, 2006 at 10:35am
Anji:
trelovescookies:
I don't understand the need to have skinny models.
Making clothes that half the world wont fit into...
ART!!! AAAAAART!!!

Do people not realise that this is all about aaaaaaart! They model fashion, they model attitude, they have their own persona on the runway, they act for the emphasise, it is a form of art. So wheather or not you are grossly thin, or sickeningly obese, modelling is an art and a form of expression and individuality. And you cannot ban that.

Is dying of malnutrition a form of art too?
Anji
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October 11th, 2006 at 10:35am
Bloodraine:
I_worship_tre_Cool:
Most arguments on this subject are based on "average" statistics... well that is where the problem is... the people involved in this are not average.

Which is what a Body Mass Index chart is used for.
There is no such thing as average. Nobody is under average. Nobody is over average. Nobody is average. Period.
Matt Smith
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October 11th, 2006 at 10:36am
Anji:
Bloodraine:
I_worship_tre_Cool:
Most arguments on this subject are based on "average" statistics... well that is where the problem is... the people involved in this are not average.

Which is what a Body Mass Index chart is used for.
There is no such thing as average. Nobody is under average. Nobody is over average. Nobody is average. Period.

Do you have a degree in medicine?
and can you kindly point out where I actually mentioned anything about averages while you're doing that?
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October 11th, 2006 at 10:44am
Bloodraine:
Anji:
Bloodraine:
I_worship_tre_Cool:
Most arguments on this subject are based on "average" statistics... well that is where the problem is... the people involved in this are not average.

Which is what a Body Mass Index chart is used for.
There is no such thing as average. Nobody is under average. Nobody is over average. Nobody is average. Period.

Do you have a degree in medicine?
and can you kindly point out where I actually mentioned anything about averages while you're doing that?
Sad Sorry.

I wasn't talking to you. I shouldn't have quoted you. My bad. Way to come off harsh...

By the way, David Bowie is teh sex. *Licks.*
Trelovescookies
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October 11th, 2006 at 12:30pm
Bloodraine:
Anji:
trelovescookies:
I don't understand the need to have skinny models.
Making clothes that half the world wont fit into...
ART!!! AAAAAART!!!

Do people not realise that this is all about aaaaaaart! They model fashion, they model attitude, they have their own persona on the runway, they act for the emphasise, it is a form of art. So wheather or not you are grossly thin, or sickeningly obese, modelling is an art and a form of expression and individuality. And you cannot ban that.

Is dying of malnutrition a form of art too?


Exactly.
I see your point of the art thing.
But when it becomes such a strong influence over people, and the art side is forgotten, it becomes an issue.
Anji
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October 11th, 2006 at 12:32pm
trelovescookies:
Bloodraine:
Anji:
trelovescookies:
I don't understand the need to have skinny models.
Making clothes that half the world wont fit into...
ART!!! AAAAAART!!!

Do people not realise that this is all about aaaaaaart! They model fashion, they model attitude, they have their own persona on the runway, they act for the emphasise, it is a form of art. So wheather or not you are grossly thin, or sickeningly obese, modelling is an art and a form of expression and individuality. And you cannot ban that.

Is dying of malnutrition a form of art too?


Exactly.
I see your point of the art thing.
But when it becomes such a strong influence over people, and the art side is forgotten, it becomes an issue.
Yes, I do think dying of malnutrition is a form of art.
Trelovescookies
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October 11th, 2006 at 12:35pm
Anji:
trelovescookies:
Bloodraine:
Anji:
trelovescookies:
I don't understand the need to have skinny models.
Making clothes that half the world wont fit into...
ART!!! AAAAAART!!!

Do people not realise that this is all about aaaaaaart! They model fashion, they model attitude, they have their own persona on the runway, they act for the emphasise, it is a form of art. So wheather or not you are grossly thin, or sickeningly obese, modelling is an art and a form of expression and individuality. And you cannot ban that.

Is dying of malnutrition a form of art too?


Exactly.
I see your point of the art thing.
But when it becomes such a strong influence over people, and the art side is forgotten, it becomes an issue.
Yes, I do think dying of malnutrition is a form of art.



So. If Billie, Tre or Mike. If your mum, or your sister, anyone you love was dieing of malnutrition you would see it as a form of art?
And you would not try to stop them at all?
Anji
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October 11th, 2006 at 01:00pm
trelovescookies:
Anji:
trelovescookies:
Bloodraine:
Anji:
trelovescookies:
I don't understand the need to have skinny models.
Making clothes that half the world wont fit into...
ART!!! AAAAAART!!!

Do people not realise that this is all about aaaaaaart! They model fashion, they model attitude, they have their own persona on the runway, they act for the emphasise, it is a form of art. So wheather or not you are grossly thin, or sickeningly obese, modelling is an art and a form of expression and individuality. And you cannot ban that.

Is dying of malnutrition a form of art too?


Exactly.
I see your point of the art thing.
But when it becomes such a strong influence over people, and the art side is forgotten, it becomes an issue.
Yes, I do think dying of malnutrition is a form of art.



So. If Billie, Tre or Mike. If your mum, or your sister, anyone you love was dieing of malnutrition you would see it as a form of art?
And you would not try to stop them at all?
There's a difference between that, suicidal, and stupid of course, but otherwise, yeah.
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