[Insert abortion here]

Frank Iero.:

I think its the mother's choice. No one else should make that choice.

Surely the father should have some say in it

Its using a part of his body as well as the mothers.

Tom's Chin.:

Frank Iero.:

I think its the mother's choice. No one else should make that choice.

Surely the father should have some say in it

Its using a part of his body as well as the mothers.

yeah the father should have some say in the matter but its the mum who has to carry the child nine months and then squeeze it out of her,

Tom's Chin.:

Frank Iero.:

I think its the mother's choice. No one else should make that choice.

Surely the father should have some say in it

Its using a part of his body as well as the mothers.

It's not using a part of his body.
It's using sperm that he ejaculated.
Sperm is not a body part.
It is a fluid that comes out of his dick.
Is piss a body part now?

druscilla; in rags:

Tom's Chin.:

Frank Iero.:

I think its the mother's choice. No one else should make that choice.

Surely the father should have some say in it

Its using a part of his body as well as the mothers.

It's not using a part of his body.
It's using sperm that he ejaculated.
Sperm is not a body part.
It is a fluid that comes out of his dick.
Is piss a body part now?

i think he means his penis

Polexia?:

druscilla; in rags:

Tom's Chin.:

Frank Iero.:

I think its the mother's choice. No one else should make that choice.

Surely the father should have some say in it

Its using a part of his body as well as the mothers.

It's not using a part of his body.
It's using sperm that he ejaculated.
Sperm is not a body part.
It is a fluid that comes out of his dick.
Is piss a body part now?

i think he means his penis

Well, in that case, as soon as intercourse stopped she stopped using his penis.

Yeah, but the mother has the same role in the actual creation of the child.
50%, 23 chromosomes. Equal.

Bloodraine:

Yeah, but the mother has the same role in the actual creation of the child.
50%, 23 chromosomes. Equal.

Equal in creation, sure.
Equal in pregnancy, no.
They don't have equal roles in the pregnancy so they shouldn't have equal roles in the choice of termination of pregnancy.

druscilla; in rags:

Bloodraine:

Yeah, but the mother has the same role in the actual creation of the child.
50%, 23 chromosomes. Equal.

Equal in creation, sure.
Equal in pregnancy, no.
They don't have equal roles in the pregnancy so they shouldn't have equal roles in the choice of termination of pregnancy.

yes they should, they should have equal right, what if the father really wants the child and could love it and give it what it needed

I for sure think that the father has somewhat of a say. i mean,. if two people have gone through the process of creation together, even by accident [and the fact that they both are part of the creation 50/50] shouldn't mean that the woman can say her opinion regarding keepingthe child or aborting it is hers alone

Lucifers Angel:

druscilla; in rags:

Bloodraine:

Yeah, but the mother has the same role in the actual creation of the child.
50%, 23 chromosomes. Equal.

Equal in creation, sure.
Equal in pregnancy, no.
They don't have equal roles in the pregnancy so they shouldn't have equal roles in the choice of termination of pregnancy.

yes they should, they should have equal right, what if the father really wants the child and could love it and give it what it needed

Well, he can't give it a womb to live in for nine months now, can he?
Nobody should ever be forced to make a woman carry a child for nine months.
I mean, it's nice if the father wants to keep the baby, but he can't have control over her body for the better part of a year. It's her body.

[Worst case scenario]
And what if the man raped her? Innocent until proven guilty, correct? Ergo, until he had his trial he would be able to make the decision on whether or not his victim should be forced to keep the child.

druscilla; in rags:

Lucifers Angel:

druscilla; in rags:

Bloodraine:

Yeah, but the mother has the same role in the actual creation of the child.
50%, 23 chromosomes. Equal.

Equal in creation, sure.
Equal in pregnancy, no.
They don't have equal roles in the pregnancy so they shouldn't have equal roles in the choice of termination of pregnancy.

yes they should, they should have equal right, what if the father really wants the child and could love it and give it what it needed

Well, he can't give it a womb to live in for nine months now, can he?
Nobody should ever be forced to make a woman carry a child for nine months.
I mean, it's nice if the father wants to keep the baby, but he can't have control over her body for the better part of a year. It's her body.

[Worst case scenario]
And what if the man raped her? Innocent until proven guilty, correct? Ergo, until he had his trial he would be able to make the decision on whether or not his victim should be forced to keep the child.

ok yeah that was the worse case, but if the man wants the child he should have his feelings considered, why should it take two to make a baby but one to abort it?

Lucifers Angel:

ok yeah that was the worse case, but if the man wants the child he should have his feelings considered, why should it take two to make a baby but one to abort it?

Because said women has to deal with pregnancy for nine months, and then just pass the newborn off to the father. Yes, the father's feeling should be considered, but he does not have to go through the pregnancy.

Besides, what about the pregnant woman? Unmarried, pregnant women often are labeled as "sluts" or "careless", even if that wasn't the case. Why should she have to put up with all of that when she doesn't even want to have a child in the first place?

druscilla; in rags:

Well, he can't give it a womb to live in for nine months now, can he?

No he can't, but does lack of womanly body parts mean that he shouldn't have a say in the upbringing of his child?

Boobmeister:

druscilla; in rags:

Well, he can't give it a womb to live in for nine months now, can he?

No he can't, but does lack of womanly body parts mean that he shouldn't have a say in the upbringing of his child?

Whoa, whoa.
Upbringing and living in utero for nine months are completely different.
If the child is born, yes, he has a say.
If not, there is nothing to "upbring".

Ol' Blue Eyes.:

Lucifers Angel:

ok yeah that was the worse case, but if the man wants the child he should have his feelings considered, why should it take two to make a baby but one to abort it?

Because said women has to deal with pregnancy for nine months, and then just pass the newborn off to the father. Yes, the father's feeling should be considered, but he does not have to go through the pregnancy.

Besides, what about the pregnant woman? Unmarried, pregnant women often are labeled as "sluts" or "careless", even if that wasn't the case. Why should she have to put up with all of that when she doesn't even want to have a child in the first place?

so the father feelings should not be considered?

If men don't have a right to decide what a women does to her uterus, then no woman has a right to demand child support.

druscilla; in rags:

Boobmeister:

druscilla; in rags:

Well, he can't give it a womb to live in for nine months now, can he?

No he can't, but does lack of womanly body parts mean that he shouldn't have a say in the upbringing of his child?

Whoa, whoa.
Upbringing and living in utero for nine months are completely different.
If the child is born, yes, he has a say.
If not, there is nothing to "upbring".

Depends where people believe life starts at.

If the father believes it's at conception, then he does have a choice in the upbringing because the child is effectively alive in his eyes, and everything that happens in those nine months is as much of an upbringing as the rest of the child's life is.

Bloodraine:

If men don't have a right to decide what a women does to her uterus, then no woman has a right to demand child support.

yes i agree with you

Bloodraine:

If men don't have a right to decide what a women does to her uterus, then no woman has a right to demand child support.

Ooooh!

Good point, good point.

But I still say that the woman should be able to make the ultimate decision as to what she does with her uterus.

Bloodraine:

If men don't have a right to decide what a women does to her uterus, then no woman has a right to demand child support.

I disagree. Unless the woman said she would get an abortion and then doesn't or something.
My mother had three children with my dad and then they divorced because he was abusive.
She couldn't financially care for three children on her own.
Was she wrong to request child support?
Was she wrong to tell my dad he had no say if she aborted a child she thought she was carrying?
No. She had every right.

Once that baby is born there are two people who are responsible for it.
But the decision to allow the fetus to turn into the child is the mother's.

A fetus and a child are different. The child has rights; the fetus doesn't.