[Insert abortion here]

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Author	Message
kirstinlette Shoot Me, I'm A Newbie Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 54	May 29th, 2009 at 10:42pm Operatic Skeleton: Boobmeister: i'd like to add in that not everyone believes that life begins at conception. This, I agree compeletly. You can not just go stating 'facts' that can not/have not been decided upon. I think it's replusive that you would expect a 13 year old girl to have a baby to someone related to her (just continuing with that example used) just because 'life begins at conception'. What about the poor girl, her entire life could possibly be ruined. Some people are not ready to be parents. Sex is an enjoyable thing and if your using contraceptive and somehow you still manage to get pregnant, I think it's hardly fair to be persecuted because you made efforts to avoid unplanned babies. It is unfair on everyone involved in most of these cases. Unless a baby is 100% wanted, it can interupt everything, destroy careers, relationships, they might not have a stable living situation or a million other things and as such, the quality of life for the child is going to be much worse of than that of a child who was planned for. Some people just don't have the money or time for a baby and it's not fair to either of them to bring a child into the world if it's not going to be cherished, loved and being able to be taken care of completely. And I think it's repulsive that you find killing an innocent child perfectly acceptable. Everyone may not me ready to be parents. But that child could be the greatest gift you could ever give to a couple who've been trying to conceive for years.
kirstinlette Shoot Me, I'm A Newbie Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 54	May 29th, 2009 at 10:47pm Bloodraine: Well, that makes me feel even worse now. Feminism is a belief in the political, social, and economic equality of women. It is a discourse that involves various movements, theories, and philosophies which are concerned with the issue of gender difference, advocate equality for women, and campaign for women's rights and interests. (source). Your post was antifeminist in the first instance because it described women as 'sluts' and men as simply 'womanizers' (I'm not sure whether you mean to be equally sexist but that isn't how I read it). Slut is a far harsher term and it is my absolute pet hate. Men have the right to shag everything under the sun and they are praised for it. We think it is fantastic. Yet when a woman does this, and by virtue of her biology becomes pregnant, she is a slut. Why should only women have to deal with the consequences of promiscuity. But what's the difference between the death of a semi-matured girl and the death of a child that hasn't left the womb? This is also antifeminist as it (by implication) places the life of an unborn child above a woman. They are not even equal - the woman is inferior. She must give up her life to let the foetus live. Why is this? I used 'womanizer' instead of a harsher word, because in my mind, the two are equal. I completely agree that both men and womyn should be treated equally when it comes to promiscuity. And I really wasn't trying to put one over the other, I was just trying to figure out the difference between the death of a womyn and the death of an unborn child.
cabot gal GSBitch Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 76863	May 30th, 2009 at 06:40am kirstinlette: And I think it's repulsive that you find killing an innocent child perfectly acceptable. Everyone may not me ready to be parents. But that child could be the greatest gift you could ever give to a couple who've been trying to conceive for years. again, it all comes down to when a person believes that life begins. sperm has the potential to make a baby, so is it wrong for gay men to have sex or guys to jerk off because "potential life" is being killed?
Nimrodx007 Geek Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 175	May 30th, 2009 at 06:48am Why is it when someone kills a pregnant woman, they get charged with a double murder? I mean, since it's "technically not born, so it's life didn't begin."
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134	May 30th, 2009 at 04:43pm Nimrodx007: Why is it when someone kills a pregnant woman, they get charged with a double murder? I mean, since it's "technically not born, so it's life didn't begin." They don't. Well, maybe in America, I don't know. See this case, where the man was not charged for three murders.
kirstinlette Shoot Me, I'm A Newbie Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 54	May 30th, 2009 at 05:44pm You know what? It's pointless to sit here and debate morals... no one is going to change mine, and I'm sure I'm not about to change anyone else's. I'll offer my beleifs, and be on my way. I beleive that life begins at the moment of conception. Therefor, I beleive that abortion is murder in any case. I also take part in the Pro-Life Day of Silent Solidarity every October. Like I said, I shall now be on my way.
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134	May 30th, 2009 at 06:29pm The point of debating isn't to just leave when you don't convert everyone to your views. It's not about you never changing your morals. It's about being able to justify your own arguments. kirstinlette: I beleive that life begins at the moment of conception. Therefor, I beleive that abortion is murder in any case. I don't think one plus one equals two here. Brain dead people are alive, but I don't think switching off their life support is murder. Foetuses are alive, okay, most people would hold you to that. It's about whether we give that life any value. What value do you place on it? Does it equal, or better, the value of an already-living woman? I think it does not. You ask why it is so bad that a woman should die in childbirth, and why that is worse than killing a foetus. It is because that woman is already living her life. She has friends, family and other loved ones. She is a part of society. She contributes to society. When she dies, a hole will be torn apart in many people's lives. When a foetus dies, the consequences are not so profound. It will affect nobody but the woman, and if she has chosen to have an abortion, I'll wager she accepts the consequences.
kirstinlette Shoot Me, I'm A Newbie Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 54	May 30th, 2009 at 06:44pm I'll admit, I used the wrong choice of words in my last post... I'm not leaving because I can't 'convert' anyone. I'm leaving because I can't be bothered to debate a point that can't be proven OR disproven because of one view(in this case, whether or not a fetus has any face value.). Vegetarianism, Christianity, Barack Obama, Vanilla vs. Chocolate Oreos... those are the type of debates I'll partake in. They maybe can't be proven one way or the other, but there isn't a crucial point on the fence or off the cliff, depending on who's speaking.
Bleach Rotting On Here Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 47505	May 30th, 2009 at 11:39pm Christ, thank you for realizing that debating is a waste of time. It's only convincing one person one way or another (as I always say) Especially in this topic.
Ahhhh! Jackass Age: - Gender: - Posts: 1372	May 31st, 2009 at 07:59pm They tried to abort me. I fought my way out. Hella Hxc.
Willow Geek Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 167	October 31st, 2009 at 08:31pm i'm against abortion but it's not really at the top of my list as far as things that i want fixed in my country. none of the politicians are really willing to do anything about it. Edit: I am a little confused why so many liberals are vegetarians because they think killing animals is wrong but they are pro choice because they think killing babies is just fine?
Incubus Jackass Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 1820	October 31st, 2009 at 08:45pm Willow: Edit: I am a little confused why so many liberals are vegetarians because they think killing animals is wrong but they are pro choice because they think killing babies is just fine? Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. Pro-choice is about supporting the right of a woman to have the ultimate say in what happens to your own body. Pro choice people defend abortion because they want to defend women's reproductive rights -subset of human rights. Also it's not a baby; most abortions are carried out in the embryonic and fetal stages, before viability.
Willow Geek Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 167	October 31st, 2009 at 09:04pm Incubus: Willow: Edit: I am a little confused why so many liberals are vegetarians because they think killing animals is wrong but they are pro choice because they think killing babies is just fine? Pro-choice does not equal pro-abortion. Pro-choice is about supporting the right of a woman to have the ultimate say in what happens to your own body. Pro choice people defend abortion because they want to defend women's reproductive rights -subset of human rights. Also it's not a baby; most abortions are carried out in the embryonic and fetal stages, before viability. i also don't understand the term "pro-choice" unless you're raped, don't you make your choice when you choose to have sex without birth control? i'm a woman and willing to take that responsibility
Incubus Jackass Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 1820	October 31st, 2009 at 09:38pm Willow: unless you're raped, don't you make your choice when you choose to have sex without birth control? i'm a woman and willing to take that responsibility And if they did use birth control? No method is 100% effective. Besides accidents happen condoms break, women can easily forget to take the pill one day. Also you'd be amazed at all the teenage girl who have never been properly taught about birth control and often mistakenly think that "pulling out" or taking the pill just on the day you have sex, is enough to protect them. And frankly is someone who can't even organise birth control, really the type of person who should be looking after a baby? Seems like more of punishment to the child than anything. Also a baby is not a punishment and should not be considered in terms of "taking responsibility". Do people who use that argument even realise how much it sounds like a "You broke, you brought it" policy?
Willow Geek Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 167	October 31st, 2009 at 09:43pm Incubus: Willow: unless you're raped, don't you make your choice when you choose to have sex without birth control? i'm a woman and willing to take that responsibility And if they did use birth control? No method is 100% effective. Besides accidents happen condoms break, women can easily forget to take the pill one day. Also you'd be amazed at all the teenage girl who have never been properly taught about birth control and often mistakenly think that "pulling out" or taking the pill just on the day you have sex, is enough to protect them. And frankly is someone who can't even organise birth control, really the type of person who should be looking after a baby? Seems like more of punishment to the child than anything. Also a baby is not a punishment and should not be considered in terms of "taking responsibility". Do people who use that argument even realise how much it sounds like a "You broke, you brought it" policy? i'm gonna stop the debate here. do you realize how pitiful we are to be staying at home on Halloween debating abortion? lmao...i guess that's better than being out there creating a situation that will result in an abortion...or unwanted child.
Dr.Hymen Geek Age: - Gender: - Posts: 192	October 31st, 2009 at 09:44pm ^ The term taking responsibility is used just as a way of saying, taking parental responsibility and looking after your blood.
Squid. King For A Couple Of Days Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 2940	October 31st, 2009 at 11:19pm kirstinlette: Everyone may not me ready to be parents. But that child could be the greatest gift you could ever give to a couple who've been trying to conceive for years. Uhm, so they need a bran new baby, Because they are to selfish and high maintenance to take one that's alredy here in the world looking for a home, NEEDING a home? Yeah, we should just give them a new one, one they'll really wantt.
Dr.Hymen Geek Age: - Gender: - Posts: 192	November 1st, 2009 at 12:06pm -walks in, sits down and stretches my legs- OK, here's my take on it. Abortion being classed immoral No matter how much you rant, whinge, moan, crib, whine, cry, shout, rave or just say, morals are individual. No one will always have the same morals. We all think differently and we act differently, because we are all different people. We were all raised differently and were raised to believe different things. Some people remain with the beliefs they were taught, others develop their own. The point being, just because it is immoral to Sally, doesn't mean it's immoral to Johnny. Personally, I don't think that the whole moral agument should even be brought up in an abortion debate, because the answer to it is simple: People believe different things. I fully support abortion. It is a personal choice. It is the womans body, it is her 9 months. If she chooses to abort, then she can, but she must live with the effects of it. If she suffers from it, she must deal with that.
votefordisco Rotting On Here Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 45710	November 3rd, 2009 at 05:08pm condomgun: Meh. If you wanna call me a murderer go ahead but I think women should have the right to choose whether or not they want to bring a child into this world. Why? Because, yes it is inhumane, we are taking a life but isn't this step better than letting a child grow up with a mother who never wanted him or her and is reminded of that every day? With these words: "I should've had an abortion." Its sort of funny in a sick way isn't it? Think about it. Sure there is adoption agencies but most children don't get adopted. Why adopt if you can just make one of your own. That's all I'm saying. A lot of people can't have their own children, which is why adoption is a good thing. It doesn't just find a home for children to go to but also offers people that can't have children the opportunity to raise and love one anyway. And you're right, women should be able to choose whether or not they want to bring a child into this world. Which is why if they do not, they should not get pregnant. If you don't want to be a mother then you should do everything in your power not to get pregnant. Accidents happen, sure, but by putting yourself in a position in which an accident can happen you kind of make that choice to bring a child into this world; you know it's possible that you might get pregnant, so if you do I don't really think it's fair to decide at that point that you don't want a child. You make the decision when you put yourself in that situation in which you might become pregnant.
Squid. King For A Couple Of Days Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 2940	November 3rd, 2009 at 05:17pm Ahhhh!: They tried to abort me. I fought my way out. Hella Hxc. lmao, That just made me laugh. It may even have made my day.

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