Toddler Abducted In Portugal

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Roisin-Marie
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May 10th, 2007 at 06:19am
they shouldnt have left her on her own!!! end of lol...i dont really no what her mother claims...she was near the place and she could see the room...she went back every half hour.well that obviously wasnt good enough.why did she leve the child by herself?shes so young! she wouldnt even understand...just that her mum and dad left her there.
Lucifers Angel
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May 10th, 2007 at 11:10am
Flaming Phalanges!:
If a woman got raped walking across a park alone at night would you be saying "Yeah well it's your own fault for walking across a park alone". I don't think you would, because it's the same thing. If you're sensible, you won't walk across a park alone because it's completely deserted and if anything happens, there's nobody to call for help.

It's bad judgement, but don't condemn people for one mistake. They're probably punishing themselves enough already.


the differance is that woman walking alone in the park would be older and more wise.
Flaming Phalanges!
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May 10th, 2007 at 01:16pm
Lucifers Angel:
Flaming Phalanges!:
If a woman got raped walking across a park alone at night would you be saying "Yeah well it's your own fault for walking across a park alone". I don't think you would, because it's the same thing. If you're sensible, you won't walk across a park alone because it's completely deserted and if anything happens, there's nobody to call for help.

It's bad judgement, but don't condemn people for one mistake. They're probably punishing themselves enough already.


the differance is that woman walking alone in the park would be older and more wise.


Yeah, so are the parents.

The woman would make a mistake, just like the parents.

You wouldn't have a go at her, so I don't see that people should be condemning the parents.
Lucifers Angel
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May 10th, 2007 at 03:14pm
Flaming Phalanges!:
Lucifers Angel:
Flaming Phalanges!:
If a woman got raped walking across a park alone at night would you be saying "Yeah well it's your own fault for walking across a park alone". I don't think you would, because it's the same thing. If you're sensible, you won't walk across a park alone because it's completely deserted and if anything happens, there's nobody to call for help.

It's bad judgement, but don't condemn people for one mistake. They're probably punishing themselves enough already.


the differance is that woman walking alone in the park would be older and more wise.


Yeah, so are the parents.

The woman would make a mistake, just like the parents.

You wouldn't have a go at her, so I don't see that people should be condemning the parents.


i am not condeming the perents, its just that the complex they were on ran a baby sitting service, why didnt they take advantage of it? why did they think it was ok to leave her alone for half hour stints?

dr's are always saying never leave your child alone for any period of time, so what made them special?
LittleMissGreenday
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May 10th, 2007 at 03:35pm
i agree, ok so the parents weren't that far away from there children but at 3 years old, the parents should have been more responsible. And as they the whole familiy went on holiday together, shouldn't they all be together? If the parents did want to go to restrants they should have taken there kids with them.
rehabreject
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May 10th, 2007 at 03:55pm
Kurtni:
rehabreject:

If you were in the same house, you would hear your child call out if anything went wrong, or be able to help them if someone else came into your home.

Not true. Children are abducted in their own homes. And it isn't just little kids either. For example, Elizabeth Smart was kidnapped from her own bedroom when she was 14. Her parents were home and everything, just a few rooms away. Not only was she not a small child, she was at her home with her parents and her siblings. None of them heard anything aside from her sister who she shared a room with.
That was an awful case, but hopefuly a rare one.
Do you have any more information on how she was kidnapped? There's only so much Wikipedia can offer.
I'm saying that parents are a LOT more likely to stop it if they're in the house. Of course my theory isn't foolproof, but it makes a hell of a difference.
Dom
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May 11th, 2007 at 01:31pm
Lucifers Angel:
Flaming Phalanges!:
If a woman got raped walking across a park alone at night would you be saying "Yeah well it's your own fault for walking across a park alone". I don't think you would, because it's the same thing. If you're sensible, you won't walk across a park alone because it's completely deserted and if anything happens, there's nobody to call for help.

It's bad judgement, but don't condemn people for one mistake. They're probably punishing themselves enough already.


the differance is that woman walking alone in the park would be older and more wise.


yeah but a woman should be able to walk across a park alone without a threat of being raped, saying its her own fault is a bit silly, when i think its more the fault of the rapists.
Flaming Phalanges!
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May 11th, 2007 at 02:21pm
Dom:
Lucifers Angel:
Flaming Phalanges!:
If a woman got raped walking across a park alone at night would you be saying "Yeah well it's your own fault for walking across a park alone". I don't think you would, because it's the same thing. If you're sensible, you won't walk across a park alone because it's completely deserted and if anything happens, there's nobody to call for help.

It's bad judgement, but don't condemn people for one mistake. They're probably punishing themselves enough already.


the differance is that woman walking alone in the park would be older and more wise.


yeah but a woman should be able to walk across a park alone without a threat of being raped, saying its her own fault is a bit silly, when i think its more the fault of the rapists.


And kids should be able to sit in a room without being kidnapped.

It's the same principal.
Peter Petrelli
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May 11th, 2007 at 03:08pm
Lucifers Angel:
Flaming Phalanges!:
If a woman got raped walking across a park alone at night would you be saying "Yeah well it's your own fault for walking across a park alone". I don't think you would, because it's the same thing. If you're sensible, you won't walk across a park alone because it's completely deserted and if anything happens, there's nobody to call for help.

It's bad judgement, but don't condemn people for one mistake. They're probably punishing themselves enough already.


the differance is that woman walking alone in the park would be older and more wise.


And that if someone is attacked because they go out on their own, they took a risk upon themselves, which yeah, isn't great, but it isn't going to impact on someone elses health. Something like is perhaps a situation that in some cases, couldn't be avoided, and it was just bad luck.

But what I think should be said is that this case came about because of appalling judgement on the part of someone who had responsibility for others. The difference is that it wasn't a decision that would just affect her, but put someone else at risk too. I'm not trying to condemn her, because I can't imagine her situation and how she feels, but it wouldn't have happened if she'd just used the creche services like any other person would've done.

Oh, and another point; I saw on the news a while ago, a very short report at the end of the broadcast that said 'this young girl was abducted last week, if you have any details contact the police', or words to that effect. It was a rushed story at the end which they didn't emphasise, but this case, which doesn't seem to be anymore important than someone else's child going missing, has 1 million pound rewards, David Beckham making pleas, and national grief 7 days later.

I can't help but think about other people who have gone through this and were just treated as an ordinary case, and that this seems to getting special publicity.

I don't know if anyone will agree with me, though.
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May 11th, 2007 at 04:14pm
Tabby Delany:
And as doctors, I bet they've had a lot of kids brought to them injured after being left on their own, so yeah, they should know better. If they're educated in medicine they've obviously got some sense about them.
Doctors naturally detatch themselves from anything they deal with because their job is to give a professional opinion. As a person, I'm sure they'd be much more different than their profession would suggest.
Lucifers Angel
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May 11th, 2007 at 04:15pm
Tabby Delany:
Lucifers Angel:
Flaming Phalanges!:
If a woman got raped walking across a park alone at night would you be saying "Yeah well it's your own fault for walking across a park alone". I don't think you would, because it's the same thing. If you're sensible, you won't walk across a park alone because it's completely deserted and if anything happens, there's nobody to call for help.

It's bad judgement, but don't condemn people for one mistake. They're probably punishing themselves enough already.


the differance is that woman walking alone in the park would be older and more wise.


And that if someone is attacked because they go out on their own, they took a risk upon themselves, which yeah, isn't great, but it isn't going to impact on someone elses health. Something like is perhaps a situation that in some cases, couldn't be avoided, and it was just bad luck.

But what I think should be said is that this case came about because of appalling judgement on the part of someone who had responsibility for others. The difference is that it wasn't a decision that would just affect her, but put someone else at risk too. I'm not trying to condemn her, because I can't imagine her situation and how she feels, but it wouldn't have happened if she'd just used the creche services like any other person would've done.

Oh, and another point; I saw on the news a while ago, a very short report at the end of the broadcast that said 'this young girl was abducted last week, if you have any details contact the police', or words to that effect. It was a rushed story at the end which they didn't emphasise, but this case, which doesn't seem to be anymore important than someone else's child going missing, has 1 million pound rewards, David Beckham making pleas, and national grief 7 days later.

I can't help but think about other people who have gone through this and were just treated as an ordinary case, and that this seems to getting special publicity.

I don't know if anyone will agree with me, though.


yeah i do agree with you, the last big case like this is a child called Ben Needham. who was taken on the island os Kos (sp) in 1990
Anji
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May 11th, 2007 at 04:30pm
Parents sometimes let their guard down. I'm sure when the teenages on this site have kids in ten, fifteen years maybe, they'll understand too. Constant 24/7 coverage of your child will not always be the case. These parents were only unlucky because unfortunately for them, they let their guard down at the worng time.

Seriously, how many here have been left in a car for five minutes while your mother or father popped out to get groceries? I know I'm not the only one. And I'm sure it doesn't take a half hour to kidnap someone, it takes at most five minutes. Does that mean my parents were careless? Were yours?

You cannot protect your child forever, things happen. It's just the seriousness of what happens that makes the difference.

After I say this story, most peopleare going to think that parents were careless, but it is really funny. Anyway, when I was three months old, my mother, father, and I were on a plane to Geneva and I was making all sorts of gurggly noises that babies make and the people sitting beside my parents asked if they could hold me. Seeing no harm in this, my parents consented and I was handed over to the seat neighbours for a while.

My parents, however, thought that while their daughter was wih stranger, now would be an excellent time to dose off. Rolling Eyes Soooo, may parents fell asleep for two whole hours.

My dad woke up and was still drowsy and grumpy like most people who still haven't slept enough after a long sleep, but suddenly realise that his three month old daughter was no where to be found. He frantically woke up my mum and were about to get up to look for me when the people seated behind my parents asked if they would like to see 'the baby'.

My dad replied saying, 'Hey! That's mine!'

lmfao It appeared as if I had sort of been passed all around the plane from person to person and then back to my parents.

Yeah, they sound really horrible now. They aren't of course.
rehabreject
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May 11th, 2007 at 04:35pm
Anji:
After I say this story, most peopleare going to think that parents were careless, but it is really funny. Anyway, when I was three months old, my mother, father, and I were on a plane to Geneva and I was making all sorts of gurggly noises that babies make and the people sitting beside my parents asked if they could hold me. Seeing no harm in this, my parents consented and I was handed over to the seat neighbours for a while.

My parents, however, thought that while their daughter was wih stranger, now would be an excellent time to dose off. Rolling Eyes Soooo, may parents fell asleep for two whole hours.

My dad woke up and was still drowsy and grumpy like most people who still haven't slept enough after a long sleep, but suddenly realise that his three month old daughter was no where to be found. He frantically woke up my mum and were about to get up to look for me when the people seated behind my parents asked if they would like to see 'the baby'.

My dad replied saying, 'Hey! That's mine!'

lmfao It appeared as if I had sort of been passed all around the plane from person to person and then back to my parents.

Yeah, they sound really horrible now. They aren't of course.
lmfao
But that was on a plane. I can't think of a successful way to abduct a baby in a sealed box, one mile above the ground...
Lucifers Angel
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May 11th, 2007 at 04:48pm
Anji:
Parents sometimes let their guard down. I'm sure when the teenages on this site have kids in ten, fifteen years maybe, they'll understand too. Constant 24/7 coverage of your child will not always be the case. These parents were only unlucky because unfortunately for them, they let their guard down at the worng time.

Seriously, how many here have been left in a car for five minutes while your mother or father popped out to get groceries? I know I'm not the only one. And I'm sure it doesn't take a half hour to kidnap someone, it takes at most five minutes. Does that mean my parents were careless? Were yours?

You cannot protect your child forever, things happen. It's just the seriousness of what happens that makes the difference.

After I say this story, most peopleare going to think that parents were careless, but it is really funny. Anyway, when I was three months old, my mother, father, and I were on a plane to Geneva and I was making all sorts of gurggly noises that babies make and the people sitting beside my parents asked if they could hold me. Seeing no harm in this, my parents consented and I was handed over to the seat neighbours for a while.

My parents, however, thought that while their daughter was wih stranger, now would be an excellent time to dose off. Rolling Eyes Soooo, may parents fell asleep for two whole hours.

My dad woke up and was still drowsy and grumpy like most people who still haven't slept enough after a long sleep, but suddenly realise that his three month old daughter was no where to be found. He frantically woke up my mum and were about to get up to look for me when the people seated behind my parents asked if they would like to see 'the baby'.

My dad replied saying, 'Hey! That's mine!'

lmfao It appeared as if I had sort of been passed all around the plane from person to person and then back to my parents.

Yeah, they sound really horrible now. They aren't of course.


no your right its not possible to watch your child 24 / 7, but you can do your best! a few posts abck i said how i was able to watch my kids, my husband woke me up early in the morning when he got up fpr work, for me to have a shower and also i had good neighbours who looked after them, but my youngest who is 7 and i would never even consider leaving him alone not even for 5 mins, if i go next door and no one else is home he comes with me, it may seem strange to some people this woman dragging a 7yr old around to her neighbours for 5 mins but its how i keep him safe. (and yes i am paranoid about socity)
Anji
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May 11th, 2007 at 05:00pm
rehabreject:
Anji:
After I say this story, most peopleare going to think that parents were careless, but it is really funny. Anyway, when I was three months old, my mother, father, and I were on a plane to Geneva and I was making all sorts of gurggly noises that babies make and the people sitting beside my parents asked if they could hold me. Seeing no harm in this, my parents consented and I was handed over to the seat neighbours for a while.

My parents, however, thought that while their daughter was wih stranger, now would be an excellent time to dose off. Rolling Eyes Soooo, may parents fell asleep for two whole hours.

My dad woke up and was still drowsy and grumpy like most people who still haven't slept enough after a long sleep, but suddenly realise that his three month old daughter was no where to be found. He frantically woke up my mum and were about to get up to look for me when the people seated behind my parents asked if they would like to see 'the baby'.

My dad replied saying, 'Hey! That's mine!'

lmfao It appeared as if I had sort of been passed all around the plane from person to person and then back to my parents.

Yeah, they sound really horrible now. They aren't of course.
lmfao
But that was on a plane. I can't think of a successful way to abduct a baby in a sealed box, one mile above the ground...
I could be gagged and stuffed into a knapsack. I mean. I was three months. Still quite tiny.

I don't think it's very healthy for me to think of my possible demise.
PentatonicA
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May 12th, 2007 at 12:32am
In cases of child abductions it’s nearly always the parents (or custodian in charge) fault/responsibility. Of course the main fault lays with the actual perpetrator but that is a subject for a different thread.

Parents and people in general have to wake up to the fact that we live in a very twisted world, and we live side by side to sick, dangerous and extremely disturbed individuals.
Specially parents have to abandon the "rose tinted glasses attitude" that every person in the world is inherently “good” and bad things are occurrences that happen to “other” people and it’ll never happen to them or their family.

I’ve witnessed with some degree of horror how in the past 10 [plus] years a tendency among parents have been developing of being increasingly careless with simple safety rules regarding their children, like allowing them to go to school on their own, often taking public transport, at younger ages. And yes, of course children are not stupid and they are perfectly capable of going to school on their own and back, the problem is not the task on itself, the problem is the kind of people the might encounter on their journeys.
Pedophilic tendencies were on the increase in the last 20 years, and governments everywhere are too keen to turn the blind eye to the problem and in the worse cases condone it or give away soft sentences, that is if they are persecuted to begin with.

There are hot spots disseminated around the globe where there are actual pedophile rings that run child sex slaves brothels, these children are often abducted from all over the world and end up in these horrible places, and are forced to serve these twisted men that pay good money for their sexual acts, these places are frequented by 'sex tourists' from all over the world.

Here are some examples for you to read:

Captive market: The sexual slave traffic in children
Canada Free Press

World: Child Sex Trade Becoming Lucrative, Pan-Asian Epidemic
rferl.org

Child trafficking in eastern Europe: A trade in human misery
wsws.org

Child sex trade thrives in Czech Republic
eubusiness.com - news
Matt Smith
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May 12th, 2007 at 04:40am
Tabby Delany:
Oh, and another point; I saw on the news a while ago, a very short report at the end of the broadcast that said 'this young girl was abducted last week, if you have any details contact the police', or words to that effect. It was a rushed story at the end which they didn't emphasise, but this case, which doesn't seem to be anymore important than someone else's child going missing, has 1 million pound rewards, David Beckham making pleas, and national grief 7 days later.

I can't help but think about other people who have gone through this and were just treated as an ordinary case, and that this seems to getting special publicity.

I don't know if anyone will agree with me, though.

Oh yes. I wholly agree.
People have been saying that Portugal has a high child abduction rate. Why hasn't it been noticed before?
Well, Madeline is a cute, white, english child from rich and middle class parents being abducted. Of course, our press will pounce on that. People go missing every day; here, in portugal, in every country. But when an adorable little girl with well-to-do parents gets taken, it becomes a big deal.

Perhaps its just something in the British Psyche; angelic looking children play on the minds of the media and the public. We respond more to Madeline because she's young, sweet, innocent and everything else. Its not fair, but it is the truth. This is getting special publicity, but that's just the way the world works.
Kurtni
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May 13th, 2007 at 11:48am
rehabreject:
That was an awful case, but hopefuly a rare one.
Do you have any more information on how she was kidnapped? There's only so much Wikipedia can offer.
I'm saying that parents are a LOT more likely to stop it if they're in the house. Of course my theory isn't foolproof, but it makes a hell of a difference.

I wasn't very old when it happened, so I don't really remember that much from the news. I just remember my mom and dad being paranoid for like a month after it happened. If you just google her name some other sources will come up besides wikipedia about how she was kidnapped.

From what I've gathered, her kidnapper has done some work in her home before in 2001; he didn't even live that far away. She was kidnapped from her bedroom in 2002. Some sources say he had a knife and I've read he had a gun in other places. Her little sister was in the room with her, and she pretended to be asleep and witnessed the whole thing. Her sister said that he woke her up and threatened to hurt her and her family if she didn't remain quite and go with him. He then forced her to leave and walk through the woods where they couldn't be seen. It really scary to think about things like that happening, with her parents right there home with her. It's kind of aggitating seeing some of the peoples posts in here blaming parents for kidnapping. Thats like blaming a rape victim for being raped. Maybe she shouldn't have been drinking or walking by herself, but do those things justify her being raped? Of course not. Just like maybe the parents shouldn't have been down at that resturant or they should have taken the kids with them, but do those circumstances make it ok for someone to kidnap children? I don't think so. The kidnapper is the criminal here; not the parents.
NeoSteph
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May 13th, 2007 at 12:45pm
Maddy was marked. If she hadn't been taken then they captors would have waited for the parents to fall asleep to grab her. Porutgese law is relaxed when it comes to peodohpile rings and trafficking mainly because some high up politicians are involved in it so can we please stop this blaming marathon of the parents. Any mother or father will tell you that when it comes to their kids they've done something that looking back wasn't such a smart move but luckily the worse didn't happen. Child snatchers are similar to pick pockets, they can take your wallet without you even realising it's gone until it's too late.

The amount of grief these parents are going through I can't even imagine. I just pray she'll return.

The fact there's so much media coverage, the fact there showing it even in the US is amazing, usually childrne missing europe doesn't get covered there. The celebrity's jumping on the bandwagon is a bit sickening really but the more well known this little girls face is the more there's a chance she'll be spotted somewhere.

Happy 4th birthday Maddy.
Anji
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May 13th, 2007 at 01:32pm
PentatonicA:
In cases of child abductions it’s nearly always the parents (or custodian in charge) fault/responsibility. Of course the main fault lays with the actual perpetrator but that is a subject for a different thread.

Parents and people in general have to wake up to the fact that we live in a very twisted world, and we live side by side to sick, dangerous and extremely disturbed individuals.
Specially parents have to abandon the "rose tinted glasses attitude" that every person in the world is inherently “good” and bad things are occurrences that happen to “other” people and it’ll never happen to them or their family.

I’ve witnessed with some degree of horror how in the past 10 [plus] years a tendency among parents have been developing of being increasingly careless with simple safety rules regarding their children, like allowing them to go to school on their own, often taking public transport, at younger ages. And yes, of course children are not stupid and they are perfectly capable of going to school on their own and back, the problem is not the task on itself, the problem is the kind of people the might encounter on their journeys.
Pedophilic tendencies were on the increase in the last 20 years, and governments everywhere are too keen to turn the blind eye to the problem and in the worse cases condone it or give away soft sentences, that is if they are persecuted to begin with.

There are hot spots disseminated around the globe where there are actual pedophile rings that run child sex slaves brothels, these children are often abducted from all over the world and end up in these horrible places, and are forced to serve these twisted men that pay good money for their sexual acts, these places are frequented by 'sex tourists' from all over the world.

Here are some examples for you to read:

Captive market: The sexual slave traffic in children
Canada Free Press

World: Child Sex Trade Becoming Lucrative, Pan-Asian Epidemic
rferl.org

Child trafficking in eastern Europe: A trade in human misery
wsws.org

Child sex trade thrives in Czech Republic
eubusiness.com - news
The only thing that parents do wrong is trusting people. Their children, society, possibly neighbours, the community. The world isn't that bad. There is however, that 99.99% of a child abduction. It's unfortunate because 100% of that 0.01% get broadcasted and everyone gets all paranoid about it. The news uses the image of a perfectly normal suburban life family, with a soccer mum and nine to five dad to convey an idea that even a perfectly ordinary family can suffer such an ordeal. This message gets misinterpreted into every perfectly ordinary family can suffer such an ordeal. And all this paranoia and hype starts to build up.

I've already mentioned it on another thread, but this is sorat like Hobbesian analysis, with child abduction. In the end families will get so paranoied that no one will be able to live without fear anymore.
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