Toddler Abducted In Portugal

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Biffy Clyro
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May 13th, 2007 at 03:29pm
What's irritating me right now is how frequently the Portuguese police keep fleeting from one potential abductor to another and now to this couple. I can understand that the wealth of information coming in might make it hard to discern what is accurate from what is not, however I hope they are right about this "couple" that are now reportedly the suspects. Though that part of the reason for looking for them was because they were seen "at a service station with an unco-operative child" isn't exactly encouraging because a lot of young children are prone to "playing up" for lack of a better phrase. Lets just hope they find who is responsible and the little lass comes home.
PentatonicA
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May 13th, 2007 at 07:21pm
Anji:

The only thing that parents do wrong is trusting people. Their children, society, possibly neighbours, the community. The world isn't that bad. There is however, that 99.99% of a child abduction. It's unfortunate because 100% of that 0.01% get broadcasted and everyone gets all paranoid about it. The news uses the image of a perfectly normal suburban life family, with a soccer mum and nine to five dad to convey an idea that even a perfectly ordinary family can suffer such an ordeal. This message gets misinterpreted into every perfectly ordinary family can suffer such an ordeal. And all this paranoia and hype starts to build up.

I've already mentioned it on another thread, but this is sorat like Hobbesian analysis, with child abduction. In the end families will get so paranoied that no one will be able to live without fear anymore.


Someone aptly said: “just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me! “ or in other words suffering aragnophobia won't exempt you from the fact that someday you might be bitten by a spider regardless of how careful you are.

The word paranoia has very negative connotations in our culture. It’s frequently used to discredit the legitimate corners and opinions of some people, to suppress them and in the more extreme cases its used to character assassinate them.

“The only thing that parents do wrong is trusting people.”
I totally agree. Placing undue trust on things or people that don’t truly deserve such trust is foolish and some might say it will lead you to a “close encounter” of the not so pleasant type.

“There is however, that 99.99% of a child abduction. It's unfortunate because 100% of that 0.01% get broadcasted and everyone gets all paranoid about it.”
Well It’d be great if it’d be true but sadly isn’t the case. Most cases of child abduction we never get to hear about, like someone previously already mentioned, it seems only when a pretty kid is abducted that the media jumps on to cover the story.
I read that it’s been estimated 1.2 million kids have been either abducted (worldwide) or sold by their own parents, and we all know that estimative figures are usually pretty conservative, the reality is that the number is always higher and grimmer that the estimates.

“This message gets misinterpreted into every perfectly ordinary family can suffer such an ordeal. And all this paranoia and hype starts to build up.”
The sentiment of your statement is rather true. The media does manipulate the psyche of the masses to imprint messages of fear and unease, but at the same time that it's doing that, it’s also diverting the attention of the people of matters that are more importance.

But none of these retract from the fact that corruption, greed, power, perversion and indeed pedophilia go all hand in hand, and it is about time people wake up to the ugly side of reality sooner rather than later for their own sake and of those they care about.

I've already mentioned it on another thread, but this is sorat like Hobbesian analysis, with child abduction. In the end families will get so paranoied that no one will be able to live without fear anymore.
Again I agree with you if not partially, we all should strive to live without fear. Fear paralyses and cripple our awareness and our ability to respond coherently and intelligently to problems and adversity.
Learning to diminish and control fear is one thing. Living carelessly in a state of dangerous naivety is another, and the price some people pay for such recklessness is high and often painful.
Anji
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May 14th, 2007 at 10:42am
PentatonicA:
“There is however, that 99.99% of a child abduction. It's unfortunate because 100% of that 0.01% get broadcasted and everyone gets all paranoid about it.”
Well It’d be great if it’d be true but sadly isn’t the case. Most cases of child abduction we never get to hear about, like someone previously already mentioned, it seems only when a pretty kid is abducted that the media jumps on to cover the story.
I read that it’s been estimated 1.2 million kids have been either abducted (worldwide) or sold by their own parents, and we all know that estimative figures are usually pretty conservative, the reality is that the number is always higher and grimmer that the estimates.
Yeah, the pretty kids gets the cover story, but for pretty much all child abduction cases in Britain, they get into the news in one way or another. Whether it's a cover story, or five lines, you read about them all.

PentatonicA:
“This message gets misinterpreted into every perfectly ordinary family can suffer such an ordeal. And all this paranoia and hype starts to build up.”
The sentiment of your statement is rather true. The media does manipulate the psyche of the masses to imprint messages of fear and unease, but at the same time that it's doing that, it’s also diverting the attention of the people of matters that are more importance.

But none of these retract from the fact that corruption, greed, power, perversion and indeed pedophilia go all hand in hand, and it is about time people wake up to the ugly side of reality sooner rather than later for their own sake and of those they care about.
So from now on should every child live on a leash with their parents? Why isn't it OK for a child to be left alone once in a while. Independence is a very important value that needs to be learned. And so is safety. Yes, precaution should be taken and taught, but with it should come theory, not unease.

I do not deny that some parents are careless, however these parents weren't and these parents, like the majority love thier children and care for them and take good care of them as best as they can. They did nothing wrong.
Anji
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May 14th, 2007 at 10:47am
PentatonicA:
Someone aptly said: “just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me! “ or in other words suffering aragnophobia won't exempt you from the fact that someday you might be bitten by a spider regardless of how careful you are.
If something's out to get you, it's out to get you and there is nothing you can do about it except develop foresight and call the police just before any crime has happened. However, if it is a random attack, it isn't fair to be blamed unless it was a careless act that provoked it.

PentatonicA:
The word paranoia has very negative connotations in our culture. It’s frequently used to discredit the legitimate corners and opinions of some people, to suppress them and in the more extreme cases its used to character assassinate them.
Well that's unfortunate for the mass of uneducated people, it's a good thing everyone here is smart enough to understand that.
PentatonicA
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May 14th, 2007 at 08:49pm
Lueez:
I asked Maria's mum on why they wanted to kidnap her, and she answered that they maybe wanted a child of their own. I thought about that. Why couldn't they go to an adoption centre? I asked my mum that and she said because Madeline was so pretty. This is a sick world.


There you go; a sensible and intelligent child right here!
2 thumbs up to you Lueez sweetheart.
PentatonicA
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May 14th, 2007 at 09:33pm
Anji:
If something's out to get you, it's out to get you and there is nothing you can do about it except develop foresight and call the police just before any crime has happened. However, if it is a random attack, it isn't fair to be blamed unless it was a careless act that provoked it.

I absolutely take your observation to the account.
But just for a second let’s brush over the basics.
Parents are responsible for their children, and of course this includes looking out for their safety for as long as they are minors. And regardless what laws might say in what countries that age is, or at least should be a universal: 18.

Now with the above and your quote in mind let‘s move on to these two scenarios;
One thing would be if for example someone snatches the kid from your hand, or arms on the street and hurls him/her in a car and they quickly speed away.
That mother or father will be blaming him/herself for the rest of their lives, I understand why they feel that way, but they really shouldn’t. It was an unfortunate and terrible occurrence, and obviously the kidnapper was determined to get the kid regardless and wasn’t deterred by the parent custodial presence.
What can any person do in a situation like that, that doesn't give you enought time to react or even comprehend what the heck just happened?
Not much. Parents fault? Not in a case like this, no.

Now if you leave your VERY young children on their own, and you go out to some restaurant. This is a different story.
Forget the parents for a minute, think about the child on her own, a stranger brakes in and there’s no one there to protect her, or to chase the intruder out. Who’s fault is that? The freak that snatched her is a crook and crooks will do what crooks do, pointing fingers and saying how awful people like that are won‘t and didn‘t stop this weirdo from breaking in, the act is passed now, it‘s done… next logical question is where were the parents? Simple as that.
We can sit here all day questioning the workings of a criminal mind, how wrong it is etc, and I won’t argue with you about that and I’ll agree on all counts.

The fact is that there’s bad people in the world and we must take the sensible and necessary steps to protect ourselves and those we love from them and from bad situations.
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May 14th, 2007 at 10:54pm
PentatonicA:
And regardless what laws might say in what countries that age is, or at least should be a universal: 18.
Where on Earth did that logic come from?
PentatonicA
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May 14th, 2007 at 11:33pm
General consensus maybe, they had to come up with a “passage to adulthood” age and agreed on 18. I don’t know.
I personally think 18 is too young it should be a round figure more like 20.

And yeah of course that you won’t agree if your age is 15 as is stated under your avatar. I don’t expect you or other youngsters to see my point of view, but let me tell you. Give it time. Wait till you get older, get out to the real world abit, see a few things, maybe having youngsters of your own, and then come back to me on this one.
And I mean this with no animosity or “smugness” intended.
Flaming Phalanges!
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May 15th, 2007 at 06:54am
People can get their own flats from the age of 16 here, and they're quite alright living alone.

People go off to university at 18.

What on earth makes you think someone can't protect themselves until they're twenty?

When it comes down to it, to protect yourself from an intruder you need brute strength, and I can safely say that even when I'm thirty, I'll be no stronger then than I am now.

You're forgetting that teenagers mature a lot more quickly than they used to, because of the world we live in. We're capable of taking care of ourselves for the most part, but everyone else is just as vulnerable as us if someone breaks into their house and wants to hurt them.

It's up to the parents when they think their son or daughter is old enough to be left (Obviously in Madeleine's case they weren't, but I'm talking about older kids) and if a 15 y.o is more responsible than a 17 year old, are they really going to say, well the 17 y.o. can stay here, because they won't set the house on fire, but the 15 y.o. has to come with us?
Lucifers Angel
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May 15th, 2007 at 01:18pm
heard on the news earlier that someone is being questiond formally about the kidnapping of Maddie, also they were saying that in portugal they cant shpw pictures of him on the news and in papers but here we can.
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May 15th, 2007 at 03:52pm
PentatonicA:
General consensus maybe, they had to come up with a “passage to adulthood” age and agreed on 18. I don’t know.
I personally think 18 is too young it should be a round figure more like 20.

And yeah of course that you won’t agree if your age is 15 as is stated under your avatar. I don’t expect you or other youngsters to see my point of view, but let me tell you. Give it time. Wait till you get older, get out to the real world abit, see a few things, maybe having youngsters of your own, and then come back to me on this one.
And I mean this with no animosity or “smugness” intended.

How old are you?
Kurtni
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May 15th, 2007 at 08:44pm
PentatonicA:
General consensus maybe, they had to come up with a “passage to adulthood” age and agreed on 18. I don’t know.
I personally think 18 is too young it should be a round figure more like 20.

And yeah of course that you won’t agree if your age is 15 as is stated under your avatar. I don’t expect you or other youngsters to see my point of view, but let me tell you. Give it time. Wait till you get older, get out to the real world abit, see a few things, maybe having youngsters of your own, and then come back to me on this one.
And I mean this with no animosity or “smugness” intended.

Don't judge the point I was making as inferior simply because you ~evidently~ are older than I am. My age had nothing to do with why I "disagreed" with you, in fact all I did was simply ask where your reasoning for thinking the age of adulthood should be 18 came from. Then, you without any reason, at all assumed I thought it should be younger and went as far as to patronize me and call me a "youngster" which to me implies that you're degrading my opinion and saying it isn't as valid based on my age. You weren't being smug, it was just rude to use someones age against them in a debate and not a very sophsticated tactic.
I think it's extremely narrrow minded to assume that all 15 year olds think that their parents shouldn't have any control of them. It's ignorant stereotypes such as that one that cause people to have negative opinions about the youth. In case you hadn't noticed, the majority of this site is teenagers, so if you feel that their opinions are insignifigant and that until they're older they won't think correctly, whats the point in even posting here? I'm sure some of the other teenagers in this forum were fairly aggitated with your remark as well.
Also, how do you know that I don't have a kid already? How do you know that I don't live out in the "real world"? It would be pretty idealistic to assume that teenage pregnancy doesn't exist and that all children live in warm, loving homes with their parents. Its so difficult to discuss issues with someone who assumes things. Thats exactly why I asked you why you felt that way so you could explain before I assumed your reasoning, then you go and say that my age tampers with my opinion and thats why I disagree with you when I never even stated an opnion.
Now, I don't have any kids and I don't intend on having children, I greatly dislike them and find them to be annyoing. I certainly don't think that affects my abilty to form an opinion on what age I think people should be allowed to make choices for themselves and when their parents should no longer be held accountable for them.
The entire reason I asked that was because it isn't universal and I feel it's culturally intolerant to think that it is. You said it was a general consensus.. well it definitely isn't. The age of majority in some places is as low as 9. If you disagree with that, that is your opinion, but it doesn't mean they don't exist.
rehabreject
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May 17th, 2007 at 12:25pm
PentatonicA:
General consensus maybe, they had to come up with a “passage to adulthood” age and agreed on 18. I don’t know.
I personally think 18 is too young it should be a round figure more like 20
I honestly don't see that much of a difference between 18 and 20.
Unless something life-changing happens and you suddenly become a completely different person, 2 years wont turn you from a rebelious teen into a responsible, 'grown-up' citizen.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you didn't make yourself clear. Maybe, by 'passage to adulthood', you mean when a person leaves Uni or starts full time work. But cultures are so different across the world I don't see how you can pigion-hole them all.
Anji
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May 18th, 2007 at 01:17pm
Flaming Phalanges!:
People go off to university at 18.
Even that is an exception. When I turned 15, many of my friends went to university.
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May 18th, 2007 at 01:19pm
Flaming Phalanges!:
When it comes down to it, to protect yourself from an intruder you need brute strength, and I can safely say that even when I'm thirty, I'll be no stronger then than I am now.
lmfao

Have you never watched Home Alone? All you need is brains. That kid must've been at most ten, and he managed to fight those criminals by himself!
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May 18th, 2007 at 07:40pm
Anji:
Flaming Phalanges!:
When it comes down to it, to protect yourself from an intruder you need brute strength, and I can safely say that even when I'm thirty, I'll be no stronger then than I am now.
lmfao

Have you never watched Home Alone? All you need is brains. That kid must've been at most ten, and he managed to fight those criminals by himself!
That kid was my hero when I was 8 and I was convinced I could live by myself in my tree house. Fizz Sadly, when you grow up you realize not everything works like it does in the movies.
ree-ee-annan
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May 21st, 2007 at 12:50pm
leaving you children alone in a foreign country is silly.

they left the door unlocked, as you could only lock it from the inside.
and it wasnt the first time they had done it, so someone had obviously been watching them do it.

altho, i dont blame them for whats happened, id of thought they'd have a bit more sense.

there was a babysitting service the could of used if they wanted to go out.

but, i dno.
i have a lot of other thoughts on this, but i dont wna to offend anyone, so i wont say.
The Doctor
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May 21st, 2007 at 01:02pm
I actually personally think that kid ain't ever gonna be found.

Of course, the wonderfullly salacious and hypocritical 'The Sun' and other of it's elk are having a field day with it.
rollerpig
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May 26th, 2007 at 05:39am
I doubt she's coming back ._.
Lucifers Angel
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May 26th, 2007 at 10:06am
hoppus love.:
I doubt she's coming back ._.


thats what i think aswell, everyone knows that the first 3 days of a kidnapp is the most crucial, but three weeks later its looking very doubtful, (i do hope i am wrong, i would hate to loose any of my children) but when they arrsted the first guy she was dead after that if he had her or knew who had her.
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