Independance

Well, it can't and won't be able to support itself!

I don't doubt that it has a pleantiful amount of resouces, it does, but it will not have the trade or the labour force if it seperates. Many towns on the fringe of Quebec will quickly disappear, such as Gatineau next to Ottawa, because most of the people who work there, actually live in Ontario. I lived in Ottawa and worked in Gatineau, the intergration of French and Canadians is so deep that I don't understand why they would want to be seperated at all. French is a big part of Canada as a whole, and likewise with Canada to the population living in Quebec.

Canada, in comparison to the world, is so harmonised with multiculturism, every Canadian accepts with open arms, Quebec as a part of Canada, Canadians are proud of our multinational population. Why then is Quebec pushing us away when we are offering so much to them? Just to be recognised? They are recognised, many people think that Montreal is the most beautiful city in Canada, many people associate Canada with the French because of Quebec, they get a whole lot of recognition.

And it's certainly not for fear of assimilation either because there are so many laws instigating biligualism across the country.

Also, Quebec doesn't need to be seperated inorder to make their own judgements of what goes on inside their own province. It is continually passing laws, making French it's official language and there are more francaphones than ever before. Not only that but their own compaines are flourishing as well. Seperation will only create competition and a depletion of consumers to companies such as Bombardier and Hyrdo Quebec. Also, half of the government is Quebecois.

Not only that, but should Quebec seperate, it would loose all the benefits that Canada earns on an international scale. Our strong ties with the U.N. and it's peacekeeping force. Canada plays a very crucial role in world diplomacy, as a whole. There is a reason why the U.N. calls Canada the 'best country' and we have been called the 'first country of the 21st centuary'.

Also, Quebec has the most debts out of any other province. Canada as a whole, balaneces this fact out, but should Quebec seperate, it's economy will suffer. Quebec has the lowest income, investment, employment, and productivity in all of Canada. I do not think it is wise for a provence like Quebec to seperate.

it probally isnt - all I'm saying is that I understand why they do want to though. When it comes down to it none of those things matters, independance is more important
i think even if scotland had more to lose than gain from independance I'd still want it, afterall there is nothing more fundamental than freedom

and i totally agree with the milticultral thing, that was one of the things that i loved about canada - with canada i have this kinda love hate thing going on, when i lived there i didnt want to be there now that I've left there are a lot of things that i really miss - mainly my friends but im getting off the point now.

What about Kosovo? Kosovo is a part of Serbia, but the leading population is Albanian. They have never thought of themselves as Serbian, actually since 1999 they are governed by the UN. They have their own capital, government and a president, but they aren't recognized. Albanians have the absolute power there being the leading population, but the minority of Serbs, of course, want to stay with Serbia. Negotiations have started, but I am afraid of the results. Serbia will never allow Kosovo to become independent and they have the support of Russia. On the other hand Kosovo has (a long with Albania) the support of the USA. I'm just so afraid that this will all end up in some war. Actually a lot of people here are. Mostly because Russia and the USA are clashing and its not like they have been best friends. Also Serbia will never let go. But I think Kosovo should be free. There were messes there since forever and maybe independence would make the fights between Albanians and Serbs smaller.

Lupinator:

On the other hand Kosovo has (a long with Albania) the support of the USA. I'm just so afraid that this will all end up in some war. Actually a lot of people here are. Mostly because Russia and the USA are clashing and its not like they have been best friends. Also Serbia will never let go. But I think Kosovo should be free. There were messes there since forever and maybe independence would make the fights between Albanians and Serbs smaller.

US won't get involved in any war anytime soon. With the situation in Iraq, everyone is so fed up with war that when we have elections next year, whoever wins is probably going to win based on who can come up with the quickest plan to get us out of there, which really scares me honestly, but thats another topic. I don't think any amount of conflict with Russia is going to drag us into a war at the moment, unless it were somehow an intense direct threat to us. Russia has had missles lined up at us in Cuba before, and we didn't go to war...another country needing help with gaining independence will get overlooked.

Kurtni:

US won't get involved in any war anytime soon. With the situation in Iraq, everyone is so fed up with war that when we have elections next year, whoever wins is probably going to win based on who can come up with the quickest plan to get us out of there, which really scares me honestly, but thats another topic. I don't think any amount of conflict with Russia is going to drag us into a war at the moment, unless it were somehow an intense direct threat to us. Russia has had missles lined up at us in Cuba before, and we didn't go to war...another country needing help with gaining independence will get overlooked.

A point. Maybe we just panic too much. But I guess the problem wont be solved since no one is eager enough to do it besides Kosovo. At least it sounds like a dead end to me, no one will let go. ._.

Kurtni:

Russia has had missles lined up at us in Cuba before, and we didn't go to war...

Cold war?

well, i don't know much about the kosovo situation I started this topic as a scot who is fed up being under english control - im very pro independance
Im glad though that I dont have to fear it would result in a war

Elegant Rubble:

i think even if scotland had more to lose than gain from independance I'd still want it, afterall there is nothing more fundamental than freedom

Please tell me in what way is Scotland not 'free'. Even if you do seperate, you'll go from being under the rule of one Scot, to being under the rule of another. The fact that our prime minister is Scotish shows that Scots aren't limited at all and do have power to do whatever they please within the law. Personally, I think liberation in Scotland is wanted for another reason than just freedom.

Bloodraine:

Kurtni:

Russia has had missles lined up at us in Cuba before, and we didn't go to war...

Cold war?

That wasn't a real war.

Anji:

Elegant Rubble:

i think even if scotland had more to lose than gain from independance I'd still want it, afterall there is nothing more fundamental than freedom

Please tell me in what way is Scotland not 'free'. Even if you do seperate, you'll go from being under the rule of one Scot, to being under the rule of another. The fact that our prime minister is Scotish shows that Scots aren't limited at all and do have power to do whatever they please within the law. Personally, I think liberation in Scotland is wanted for another reason than just freedom.

Yeah but Gordon Brown is an arsehole - the difference would be that the person in charge of scotland like Alex Salmond is right now is that it'll be a scot who is against the union!!!! And I cant speak on behalf of anyone else but my personal reasons for wanting to be seperate from the UK is that I want to be recognised as Scottish and nothing else.

The way in which scotland is not free is in the way that we do not have the power to make decisions for ourselves - for example the scottish parliment voted against the war in iraq but england had the final say and our soldiers were forced into a war that we were against.

The scottish parliment doesnt have a lot of power really, its only there to represent what scotland wants but ultimely its westminister that has they final say. I want Scotland to be able to have complete freedom from the british parliment so that we can be in charge of everything that happens within our country.

I dont think a Scot should be in charge of the UK - thats hyprocritical as we dont want english making decisions for us - england shouldnt have a scot making decisions for them.

There isnt an argument that you can make no matter how reasonable that could deffer me from this - its just a fundmental thing i live with, always have, my family have always been supporters of the SNP and SSP - in fact tommy sherridan is one of my heros - just listen to that guy - he explains it all

I actually hate Nationalist parties. Why can't a country stay in place?

Catalunya and Basque Country want do be Independent but they won't get anywhere bombing Spain.

Australia had a referendum on indepence... sadly we're still a commonwealth...

being part of the commonwealth is entirerly different though - at least you have complete freedom to make your own decisions - although i woudnt want to have to recognise the queen as head of state

Elegant Rubble:

being part of the commonwealth is entirerly different though - at least you have complete freedom to make your own decisions - although i woudnt want to have to recognise the queen as head of state

All the other representatives are shit though, better the queen than Adrienne Clarckson, thank God we don't have to deal with her anymore.

And what's all this negativity towards to monarchy anymore.

Everyone today is so liberal, can't people just realise and recognise where they come from at least once in a while? Especially being part of the British Empire has been a privilage in the past, but clearly that novelty has worn off. It's because history and gets such a liberal bias that any thing even considered remotely traditional ends up being completely ridiculed, like the Royal Family (fair enough, the more recent members are a joke).

Elegant Rubble:

I dont think a Scot should be in charge of the UK - thats hyprocritical as we dont want english making decisions for us - england shouldnt have a scot making decisions for them.

If it's 'freedom' you want and you believe you are being oppressed with, fine, go ahead, what the hell, I respect your decision, the thing I can't comprehend though is why so negative? It's making me believe that unity has been completely lost from the 20th centuary. Everything that used to make us stand together is suddenly shreading us apart, as Brits, and I don't care how much you dislike that term, but guess what, you're still a fellow Brit to me. And I've never, and I mean this, I have yet to be told what is so horrible about England that makes everyone else try to distance themselves from it. Is it Tony Blair's recent decisions in office which are different to your own, is it just a strong distain for the English which has always been present, is it power struggles, or economy and money, I actually have never been told yet. I know, there is a fair bit to dislike about England, but in the end we have always stood shoulder to shoulder (to quote the Irish, ironically enough) throughout battles and wars and through thick and thin. I mean, it really is like suddenly getting rid of your best friend, even if they are a total whore (economically and socially). Does history really mean that little to you?

In fact quite the opposite, its our history that makes me feel this way- Scotland's history is being invaded by england - scotland never once tried to invade any country, all we have ever wanted is to live freely and peacefully - i think its an evolution thing, scottish people are among the most patriotic which i beleive is largely due to our history - we've had to fight to remain scottish throughout history!!!!

Although i do want complete independance from england I'm not talking about cutting all ties - i would have no issue about ramaing close allies. All Scotland has ever wanted is just be left to our own devices and get on with things, thats what i still want.

From the declaration of arbroath:
for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

Lost my train of thought.

ah well

Elegant Rubble:

In fact quite the opposite, its our history that makes me feel this way- Scotland's history is being invaded by england - scotland never once tried to invade any country, all we have ever wanted is to live freely and peacefully - i think its an evolution thing, scottish people are among the most patriotic which i beleive is largely due to our history - we've had to fight to remain scottish throughout history!!!!

Although i do want complete independance from england I'm not talking about cutting all ties - i would have no issue about ramaing close allies. All Scotland has ever wanted is just be left to our own devices and get on with things, thats what i still want.

From the declaration of arbroath:
for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom -- for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.

There is a slight difference between fighting to remain Scottish and fighting to remain free.

To be in full and upmost honesty...I really do not want independance for Scotland (coming from a Scot) for two reasons.

1. We have oil and we would get invaded (lol. I love that joke. Tis brilliant)
2. I want to be the next Maggie Thatcher/Gordon Brown/Charles Kennady...ruling over The Earth The UK.

The Union has worked for so many years, why bother giving it up? It just needs to be jiggled a bit.