Cecilia Had A Life Before GSB Age: 39 Gender: Female Posts: 26847
October 1st, 2009 at 02:46pm
iViva la Andrea!:
I have.
They don't even begin to explain how saying "be unique, look like everybody else" isn't hypocrisy.
They don't even begin to address that harassment doesn't disappear if two people are wearing the same outfit.
They don't even begin to explain how making everybody dress the same encourages tolerance, respect, and multiple forms of individuality.
So?
What does it have to do with what I've told you?
School is school. You have an uniform, for the reason I explained. What you wear outside of school is your choice. Wear whatever you want.
But when you enter in a "community" (school, work, church etc...), you have rules and codes to follow. Some are more rigorous than others, but that's how it works.
I used to have a pink and black mohawk, with lots of "punk-ish" clothes and piercings. I now work as an analyst - programmer, and I'm in contact with businessmen, executives and such 'cause they contact me to make software or whatever. When I show them the final project, I've to be credible so they buy my stuff instead of someone else's.
So I dropped the crazy hairstyle and clothes for something more professional. It doesn't mean I have no personnality. Just that I grew up, I guess, and also that I've found something else other than clothes to express it.
"If you define your freedom of self expression as being able to wear whatever t-shirt you want, then it doesn't say much about your personality on the inside if you're judging how unique someone is by what they wear."
If you want to pretend appearance is not a form of self-expression, you are living in serious denial.
"It doesn't. Harassment will occur everywhere, uniform or not."
My point exactly. What I'm trying to figure out is why some people are denying that, but said people will not give me a reason.
"Uniform prepares you for the ~working world~ and thus encourages tolerance of what your boss would expect for you to wear to work. You respect your boss' rules by wearing what is appropriate for your work."
People choose their careers. People rarely choose where they go to school. People get paid to go to work. People do not get paid to go to school. If somebody wants to choose a career where they have to dress the way others want them to, that's fine. I'm not talking about corporations. I'm talking about teenagers and schools.
And no, it doesn't teach tolerance. What you just described is being taught to do things others ask of you without question. Two unrelated and very different things.
"But there are other ways to express your inividuality than clothing, isn't there?"
As I have said, yes. Can we please stop asking me to repeat myself now? Thanks.
"Surely what you do and how you act around people, that's the most important thing that determines who you are. Not what shirt you're wearing or what colour your hair is?"
Would you mind showing me where I said this? Several people seem to be under the impression that I have said this. I have asked to be quoted on when I supposedly said this, nobody has. Perhaps because I never did?
Somebody CHOOSING to not express themselves through fashion is very different than being FORCED not to. Choice and order are two very different things.
cabot gal GSBitch Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 76863
October 1st, 2009 at 03:08pm
iViva la Andrea!:
"If you define your freedom of self expression as being able to wear whatever t-shirt you want, then it doesn't say much about your personality on the inside if you're judging how unique someone is by what they wear."
If you want to pretend appearance is not a form of self-expression, you are living in serious denial.
show me where i said it wasn't.
you're always going on about people misquoting you but you never actually read things properly yourself. i said it was not the ONLY FORM of self expression.
This should be fun, though.
Last time I had a different opinion I got told I should be the only one not allowed to express my opinions and called a cunt. Can't wait to see what you guys come up with this time.
Where I work, we have a dress code. I could have very simply said I didn't want the job. In 7th grade, if uniforms had been introduced to the school, I could not have said "I choose not to attend this school," at least not without parental permission and a lot of beurocrisy.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to see the difference between choices and rules, and the difference between work and school.
im so punx i dont believe in uniform stick it to the man
Cecilia Had A Life Before GSB Age: 39 Gender: Female Posts: 26847
October 1st, 2009 at 05:20pm
iViva la Andrea!:
Where I work, we have a dress code. I could have very simply said I didn't want the job.
If you have enough money saved to be able to say "I don't want this job 'cause I don't like the dress code" then go ahead.
But would you seriously refuse a job opportunity 'cause of a dress code?
Same for school, would you refuse the right of learning due to a dress code?
iViva la Andrea!:
"Uniform prepares you for the ~working world~ and thus encourages tolerance of what your boss would expect for you to wear to work. You respect your boss' rules by wearing what is appropriate for your work."
People choose their careers. People rarely choose where they go to school.
You don't choose what college to attend? o_O
iViva la Andrea!:
People get paid to go to work. People do not get paid to go to school.
I don't think there are many differences between school and work. You don't get paid at school, right, but if you don't work well, you have bad grades and end up being fired, and you have to go to another school. If you work well though, you have good grades and pass and stuff. Same for work, you work well, you're paid and well paid. You don't work well, you don't earn much money and you end up being fired and you have to look for another job.
iViva la Andrea!:
If somebody wants to choose a career where they have to dress the way others want them to, that's fine. I'm not talking about corporations. I'm talking about teenagers and schools.
Give me the name of a job where you totally have no dress code and where you can wear WHATEVER you want WHOEVER the boss is.
You don't choose your career by what you're allowed on wearing if you do this or that job for a living. Or that's stupid.
You choose a career 'cause you love it, 'cause it's a passion for you, 'cause you have skills in that domain.
iViva la Andrea!:
I'm not sure why it's so hard to see the difference between choices and rules, and the difference between work and school.
You're mixing up many things, I think.
What one teaches you at school is the basics. Not only in mathematics, grammar and all those subjects you can find at school, but also what's to live within a community. With rules. And you don't choose the rules. They're there and you follow them.
As for school/work, I've already explained my point in this post.
Cecilia Had A Life Before GSB Age: 39 Gender: Female Posts: 26847
October 1st, 2009 at 05:31pm
iViva la Andrea!:
Somebody CHOOSING to not express themselves through fashion is very different than being FORCED not to. Choice and order are two very different things.
It's fucking school, jesus christ! It's not home or holiday.
You can express yourself through fashion out of school.
Why is this such a big deal, I don't get it...
Anyway, I'd like to know, how would you react if you saw someone wearing clothes with "nazi" writings or any items related to fascism?
Jello Biafra. Falling In Love With The Board Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 6895
October 1st, 2009 at 07:32pm
They're just uniforms jfc you can't look like a ragdoll everywhere all the time.
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134
October 2nd, 2009 at 06:31am
iViva la Andrea!:
This should be fun, though.
Last time I had a different opinion I got told I should be the only one not allowed to express my opinions and called a cunt. Can't wait to see what you guys come up with this time.
Js, nobody told you not to have an opinion, stop being so paranoid. We're questioning your opinion, it's what a debate is.
Even with strict dress codes you normally get some choice over how to wear your hair, what shoes to buy, what schoolbag to carry, what scarf/hat/gloves/umbrella you have, what earrings you pick. So if being ~unique really matters you've got some opportunity. Most dress codes aren't even that strict, I'm only using the most extreme example. But you can tell people apart pretty easily from personalities and so on (provided you actually have one beyond your band shirt and studded belt) and, in any case, even if you got a choice, I know what all these people who are all 'omg originality!' would wear. Studded belt, black tshirt, skinny jeans? Even if you're a 'punk' or a 'goth' that's still a 'dress code' because you can't be a 'punk' and wear your grandma's dress. Most people subscribe to some form of dress code even if they won't admit it to themselves.
i wear a school uniform but i'm pretty glad of it tbh. i don't have enough nice clothes to wear every day and i'd much rather everyone look the same than be picked on for wearing the same shirt.
i wear badges on our blazers though to ~show my individuality~, i don't need clothes to do that idk
I've never attended school that required a uniform.
I'm not going to say i WISH I had, but I wouldn't have minded.
People judge you based on your clothes, at least, I know a lot of girls do.
Keeping up with it all, making sure every outfit is acceptable and won't be made fun of behind your back, every day is exhausting.
I realize this could still happen to some extent in a school with uniforms, but not as much.
stilinski King For A Couple Of Days Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 3581
October 26th, 2009 at 07:03pm
I'm now in college, and can dress as I please.
But I sometimes miss the simpler days of uniform in secondary school.
I could get dressed in under 2 minutes, something that really isn't possible for me anymore (I am far too indecisive!)
I think uniforms, or dress codes, at least, are a good thing. I think it's sad that young people these days are often against.
I would enjoy school uniforms.
Even though I love my clothes.
It'd be ballah.
Squid. King For A Couple Of Days Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 2940
October 31st, 2009 at 07:46pm
Gald that iViva la Andrea! got what she needed.
She attacks, doesn't get things right, and talks like a know it all. :].
I don't know....uniforms aren't the end of the world,
I just don't like being told what to wear.
And I enjoy being compfy in my decsions.
FandomLocked King For A Couple Of Days Age: 27 Gender: Female Posts: 4387
March 21st, 2011 at 07:19pm
UNIFORMS SUCK >
I'D HATE IT IF I HSD TO WEAR THEM
I LIKE EXPRESSING MYSELF
I believe students SHOULD be allowed to express themselves but there should be a certin limit on certin things for example short skirts/shorts I believe those should be banned because it can make young girls look slutty,but my school bans wristbands which I think should be allowed and we're not allowed to wear clothes with holes in them,and I think that should be allowed too. So certin things I can see schools banning but I will NEVER NEVER NEVER support school uniforms,I think they're the most stupid things ever
UNIFORMS SUCK >
I'D HATE IT IF I HSD TO WEAR THEM
I LIKE EXPRESSING MYSELF
I believe students SHOULD be allowed to express themselves but there should be a certin limit on certin things for example short skirts/shorts I believe those should be banned because it can make young girls look slutty,but my school bans wristbands which I think should be allowed and we're not allowed to wear clothes with holes in them,and I think that should be allowed too. So certin things I can see schools banning but I will NEVER NEVER NEVER support school uniforms,I think they're the most stupid things ever
And I think there are a lot more things going on in the world that are 'more stupid' and worse than school uniforms.
As many other people have said, wearing a uniform doesn't really stop you being able to express yourself. After all, clothes are clothes. Having a personality and showing that is the best way for someone to express themselves. I don't understand this whole idea that clothes are major self expression, yes, it's nice to look nice. However, in a school uniform, everyone looks the same. There is no judging people on their clothes. Those who cannot afford the most expensive clothes don't have to worry when everyone looks the same.
I just to wear a uniform and I now wear my own clothes due to me being in sixth form. To be honest, it genuinely hasn't made a difference to me. I'm in school to learn rather than look at what everyone else is wearing. It wouldn't matter to me if someone was sat there dressed completely in tartan or if they were in a uniform. I know I sound like an old man but it's not a fashion show. School isn't there to impress others. Express yourself through your clothes, if you feel you have to, outside of school but in school, no one is looking at your clothes and no one should be.
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