And chances are those problems include (not limited to) the attitudes of those kids who they killed. If you think the issue is simple enough to only include the people who commited the crime, you need to open up a little bit and look at the whole picture. You're placing blame, "their problems". You aren't looking at the cause or the solution.
Kristmas_Tsanne Great Success! Age: 32 Gender: Male Posts: 59161
February 23rd, 2007 at 07:35am
Of course, whether youre a teenager or not, its wrong to kill other people. Thats my simplified answer to it.
Having a scapegoat like Marilyn Manson is wrong aswell. He wrote an article about this very topic and it was very well-written, in my opinion. These people decided on their own. Marilyn Manson didnt write a song called "Go kill people at your school" and even if he did, that would still not be a reason to shoot other people. Article. *click*
But maybe thats another discussion..
Kristmas_Tsanne Great Success! Age: 32 Gender: Male Posts: 59161
February 23rd, 2007 at 07:38am
Kurtni:
Magne:
I_worship_tre_Cool:
strummer92:
yeah they got those guns way to easily and they werent the type of students
that looked like they kill 50 kids
You can't really label someone as "Oh, they would shoot up a school" or that they wouldn't. If someone had thought they would, they would have done something about it, or at least told someone else about it. No one expected it to erupt into what uit did, which Is why I think they were looking for a scapegoat and alot of the blame fell on entertainment like Marilyn Manson.
did you see him on Tv a while ago talking about it, he was amazing he made his point really well. He basically said that these people will shoot up schools with oor without his music and he also said that the goverment is just looking for people otehr then themselfs to blame
"Someone asked me what I would say to these kids and I said nothing, I'd listen, thats the one thing no one did." Marilyn Manson
He is very articulate and intelligent, on Bowling for Columbine he made alot of great points. He gets ridiculed and judged for being different, which in a sense is what he wants, because it just proves his point further that the media is the true issue and whats really manipulting society. Im ordering his Auto-biography, it's bond to be interesting. Someone should make a thread on him. Hes so contreversial.
Ah. This was what i meant in my post before. He wrote an article about this very thing, also in my post before.
Anji Basket Case Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 15914
February 24th, 2007 at 09:19am
Kurtni:
peeingchicken:
yeah if you kill kids,you have HUGE problems.
And chances are those problems include (not limited to) the attitudes of those kids who they killed. If you think the issue is simple enough to only include the people who commited the crime, you need to open up a little bit and look at the whole picture. You're placing blame, "their problems". You aren't looking at the cause or the solution.
It's a dog eat dog world.
...I was just looking for a place to say that. But, it's true. These kids aren't acting upon random acts of violence. They have a message they want to get through. I know I've already said it on this thread, but who's seen the movie Elephant? It's a fabulous movie and I have no clue how accurate it actually was, but you do feel bad for the kids who are shooting everyone.
And chances are those problems include (not limited to) the attitudes of those kids who they killed. If you think the issue is simple enough to only include the people who commited the crime, you need to open up a little bit and look at the whole picture. You're placing blame, "their problems". You aren't looking at the cause or the solution.
It's a dog eat dog world.
...I was just looking for a place to say that. But, it's true. These kids are acting upon random acts of violence. They have a message they want to get through. I know I've already said it on this thread, but who's seen the movie Elephant? It's a fabulous movie and I have no clue how accurate it actually was, but you do feel bad for the kids who are shooting everyone.
I started watching that movie at like midnight a few weeks ago and I fell asleep! I've heard it's very good. I might go rent it later.
I don't know that I'd call them random acts of violence, the cause is pretty easy to see typically when their life is taken into closer examination. All of the bullying or their home life, whatever it may be, something provokes them.
Anji Basket Case Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 15914
February 24th, 2007 at 09:32am
Kurtni:
Anji:
Kurtni:
peeingchicken:
yeah if you kill kids,you have HUGE problems.
And chances are those problems include (not limited to) the attitudes of those kids who they killed. If you think the issue is simple enough to only include the people who commited the crime, you need to open up a little bit and look at the whole picture. You're placing blame, "their problems". You aren't looking at the cause or the solution.
It's a dog eat dog world.
...I was just looking for a place to say that. But, it's true. These kids are acting upon random acts of violence. They have a message they want to get through. I know I've already said it on this thread, but who's seen the movie Elephant? It's a fabulous movie and I have no clue how accurate it actually was, but you do feel bad for the kids who are shooting everyone.
I started watching that movie at like midnight a few weeks ago and I fell asleep! I've heard it's very good. I might go rent it later.
I don't know that I'd call them random acts of violence, the cause is pretty easy to see typically when their life is taken into closer examination. All of the bullying or their home life, whatever it may be, something provokes them.
I didn't call it 'random acts of violence'...that are is supposed to be an 'aren't'.
The only thing I don't understand about these kids is that they have to take it out on people they don't even know. Maybe they're against society in general, but I think there would be another way out of a stress place of mind like that.
Brett Anderson Shoot Me, I'm A Newbie Age: 29 Gender: - Posts: 92
May 17th, 2009 at 04:29pm
spill_no_sick:
FateATwisted5-25-77:
I think that it's scary in the sense that this kind of thing can happen. For example, I know a girl who went to a school in Buffalo Grove. This girl got really mad at this guy because he made a hate site for her, so she wrapped up a knife disguised as a present, and then stabbed him in the back. It's scary to know that this kind of thing can happen in your own town.
As for Columbine, I have to admit, it was a scary event. But, it made people aware that kids can get guns just as easily as adults. Marilyn Manson, contrary to popular belief, was not one of the two shooters' favorite music artists. In fact, experts think they might have disliked him.
the whole reason he was blamed was because he was in their suicide note
First of all, where did you find the suicide note they made. i have to have a look at that.
Secondly, i strongly sympathize all involved in the Columbine massacre. Even Eric and Dylan, who were in my opinion great people who had bad things happen to them, causing them to bad things themselves. no one is to blame. this shouldnt be a blame-game. we should be able to look at this and understand it so it doesnt repeat itself again and again.
also, that marilyn manson interview was amazing. when he said he wouldnt say anything and just listen to what the kids have to say, i get chills down my spine and so does my mum.
no one is to blame. this shouldnt be a blame-game. we should be able to look at this and understand it so it doesnt repeat itself again and again.
To understand why it happened and to prevent it, you need to "blame" something.
I'd say the biggest problem is guncontrol. People (exeption for coppers) shouldn't be allowed to have guns. Period. Not for hunting, not for anything.
People in Holland aren't allowed to have guns > We have no school shootings (at least I've never heard of one).
We stab people at school
This, ofcourse, isn't a solution for violent behaviour, but still, I believe, it would save lives.
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134
May 18th, 2009 at 02:00pm
Sally godverdomme:
Not for hunting, not for anything.
I think that would be a bad thing for liberty.
Hunting, whilst I don't personally like it, is a valid hobby or interest for an adult.
I believe gun control for people who want to engage in recreational hunting should be strict, but they should be allowed a gun. To deny them that ability would be to go too far, in my opinion. If you want to shoot an animal (assuming it is legal to do so, of course) then that action affects no other human. It's what you personally want to do, it doesn't harm another human being. So it should be allowed.
I don't really see that as a bad thing for liberty, there are plenty of countries where gun ownership is illegal.
They should rent out guns for hunting xD and chip 'em, so you can't take them home -feels higly intelligent-
yeah...offtopic sry
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134
May 18th, 2009 at 03:31pm
Sally godverdomme:
I don't really see that as a bad thing for liberty, there are plenty of countries where gun ownership is illegal.
Like?
I know you mentioned Holland, so either wikipedia is incorrect or I don't really understand this:
Dutch gun law is typical of the Western European approach. Firearm possession is not subject to any constitutional protections, but regulated simply in the Arms and Ammunition Act (Wet Wapens en Munitie). Weapons, including firearms, are divided into four categories, and for each of the categories a certain maximum punishment is set for "voorhanden hebben" (possession), and "dragen" (carrying in public).
Only citizens who are members of hunting and shooting sports clubs may obtain licences for weapons. And even then they may only get a licence for category III weapons (sports weapons).
Firearm possession and use by the military and the police is not subject to Arms and Ammunition Act, but regulated separately.
It's a bad thing for liberty because if you own a gun and use it for strictly shooting animals, it is an action that affects only yourself, the individual. Therefore, all doctrines of liberalism find it acceptable. That's what liberalism is, the greatest individual freedom possible. Then again, the whole liberalism/gun control debate is huge, I can't simplify it in one post. At the very least, though, liberalism permits a person to own a gun if they are going to use it to shoot animals on a recreational basis.
I did not even know that :O
Nobody I asked about it knew that, I guess it's because hunting isn't so big where we live.
But I still think gun-ownership should be restricted. And to put it very black-white:
Hunting or kids shooting each other? Seems like an obvious choise, but I understand it's a lot harder ofcourse.
What is important to prevent violence in schools is that teachers should do more about bullying in schools, because it is usually the kids that are bullied that snap like that. Closer contact between teachers and students should help a lot.
I remember that back when I was 11/12 when a kid was being bullied, the entire class had to spend the afternoon in school and we had to talk it out. Sometimes the bullying would continue, and we would spend another afternoon together, and eventually it would end, after about 2 or 3 talks tops.
I don't know if in American schools you have one class you spend an entire year with? But I consider that to be important because that way you have a better chance to bond and you can get a clearer view of which students bully or get bullied.
And to put it very black-white:
Hunting or kids shooting each other? Seems like an obvious choise, but I understand it's a lot harder ofcourse.
Why waste time putting something in black and white terms when nothing is black and white? Guns used in school shootings are obtained illegally, the people who use their guns for hunting aren't the problem- they're the ones following the laws. How is it just to punish them?
Sally godverdomme:
What is important to prevent violence in schools is that teachers should do more about bullying in schools
I think focusing on the teachers is a mistake. Teachers aren't the ones bullying (obviously) and teachers can't do anything about the bullying the occurs outside of school. Focus on the kids, teach them at an early age it's wrong to bully.
I know in the schools I've gone to, character education programs don't start into highschool, which is like putting a bandaid on a decapitated head. It does nothing but create a safety net for school administrators so they can say they did "something" is a school shooting ever happened. Programs like that should be used on younger kids, when they're still learning.
I know the problem lays with the kids, I agree with you on that but like you say, they need to be taught that bullying is wrong. I disagree with you that they can't do anything about bullying outside the schools, because if they properly teach the children that bullying is wrong the kids would use that knowledge outside of school as well.
Guns used in school shootings are obtained illegally
Actually, in the case of the school shooting in Germany the parents of the 17-year old were gun collecters and had about 18 (legally obtained) guns in their home. The boy obtained one of the weapons from the parental bedroom.
Guns used in school shootings are obtained illegally
Actually, in the case of the school shooting in Germany the parents of the 17-year old were gun collecters and had about 18 (legally obtained) guns in their home. The boy obtained one of the weapons from the parental bedroom.
...and the boy took that weapon illegally.
Joel McHale. King For A Couple Of Days Age: 30 Gender: Female Posts: 3974
May 24th, 2009 at 02:48am
Kurtni:
Guns used in school shootings are obtained illegally
Thurston High School shooting.
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134
May 24th, 2009 at 01:11pm
I also hate to be awkward, but the Dunblane school massacre was carried out by a man who legally owned a gun.
The UK government's solution? Ban hand guns.
I'm probably somewhat a hypocrit here but I can't say that I'm complaining.
Guns used in school shootings are obtained illegally
Thurston High School shooting.
All of his weapons were legal? They couldn't have been- he wasn't old enough to own a handgun. Not to mention that he had a history of obtaining weapons illegally, which exhibits the same problem. He illegally purchased a shot gun in 8th grade, the Glock he used belonged to his father, with the agreement that Kinkel would get it when he was 21, his 22 pistol was illegally purchased from a friend. His father bought him some sort of shot gun the year before the shooting, but once again it wasn't Kinkels gun, and by stealing it from his father, it was obtained illegally. His 32 caliber pistol was stolen. I think he stole other things and illegally bought them from friends as well, at any rate, he exhibits the typical profile of a school shooter. I'm sure we could find an exception, where a student had obtained weapons legally, but that wouldn't be the norm.
Bloodraine:
I also hate to be awkward, but the Dunblane school massacre was carried out by a man who legally owned a gun.
The UK government's solution? Ban hand guns.
I'm probably somewhat a hypocrit here but I can't say that I'm complaining.
I should have specified I was talking about shootings done by students, but yeah, shootings involving adults who CAN legally obtain weapons opens up a whole different realm of problems.
All you know of them revolves around a school shooting.
