Macfadyen Basket Case Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 16175
October 31st, 2007 at 06:24am
It's not like an Atheist could force themself to believe, after hearing that speech.
I think if there was a Heaven and a Hell, it should be based purely on whether you were a good person or not. Not why you were a good person.
Is it not better to be a good person for the sake of being a good person, than to be a good person because you're afraid of eternal damnation?
votefordisco Rotting On Here Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 45710
October 31st, 2007 at 09:49am
vonny:
How can you go somewhere you don't believe in though? If you don't believe it exists, then in your mind it doesn't, therefore you can't end up there.
I think you're looking at it slightly wrong here. That's like saying that if someone doesn't believe prison exists then they can't be put there. Or that if someone believes that Africa is made up then they can't be physically put there. But they can, can't they? If a place exists you don't really need to believe in it.
vonny:
There is nothing greater then being alive, yet there is nothing worse than being alive.
How can you know that when this is all you've ever experienced? There could be something greater or worse that we have no concept of because it's not part of what we call this world.
I think you're looking at it slightly wrong here. That's like saying that if someone doesn't believe prison exists then they can't be put there. Or that if someone believes that Africa is made up then they can't be physically put there. But they can, can't they? If a place exists you don't really need to believe in it.
Yes, but what you described are physical things that are proven to be real. We are talking about Heaven and Hell here. There is nothing on this world that has proven them to be real, although it could be debated that the Bible has proven it. But even then there's no physical evidence. Therefore if people don't put their faith and believe that hell exists, then how can they possibly go there? For all we know heaven and hell are just metaphors, and not actual places.
I Created Disco:
How can you know that when this is all you've ever experienced? There could be something greater or worse that we have no concept of because it's not part of what we call this world.
True, but still, it's what I believe. I don't believe there is anything after we die. It's just life. The Bible could be saying that those who don't believe go to Hell, Hell being a metaphor for their life. Followers of God believe their way of life is right, and Athiests way of life is wrong. When we die maybe we'll find out that life was heaven or hell, depending on what we believed in. If that makes sense.
votefordisco Rotting On Here Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 45710
October 31st, 2007 at 10:16am
vonny:
Yes, but what you described are physical things that are proven to be real. We are talking about Heaven and Hell here. There is nothing on this world that has proven them to be real, although it could be debated that the Bible has proven it. But even then there's no physical evidence. Therefore if people don't put their faith and believe that hell exists, then how can they possibly go there? For all we know heaven and hell are just metaphors, and not actual places.
Yes, but that wasn't really my point. What the article was saying was that if heaven and hell are real - as in real 'physical' places or whatever - then we will all end up in either one after we die. It doesn't matter if we believe in this life, because all we have is this physical world and like you said, we can't go to heaven and hell if they're only in the mind. But my argument is that if heaven and hell are real places that exist after we die, then we will end up there regardless if we believe in them or not.
Prison and Africa were just examples. If someone's never been or seen any proof that Africa exists, it doesn't mean that they can't be put there. It can exist only in the mind until they're actually put there, at which point it will become and actual place for them. You see what I'm saying?
vonny:
True, but still, it's what I believe. I don't believe there is anything after we die. It's just life. The Bible could be saying that those who don't believe go to Hell, Hell being a metaphor for their life. Followers of God believe their way of life is right, and Athiests way of life is wrong. When we die maybe we'll find out that life was heaven or hell, depending on what we believed in. If that makes sense.
Yeah, it does. I just like questioning people when they say stuff like that. XD It's fine to believe that, but you can't know it. No one can.
Have I got something for you guys! The other day I was reading the newspaper and this guy wrote a letter to the editorial (or reader form). Here's what he had to say:
After I read that I was like, "This guy is awesome!"
He is so right. If I was Atheist and someone said that to me...I would be speechless.
...that's so dumb sry.
Sherlock Board Parasite Age: 39 Gender: Female Posts: 35331
October 31st, 2007 at 10:34am
PFFT. If God is all loving, why would he condemn those who don't believe to hell? I thought we were all God's children.
Yes, but that wasn't really my point. What the article was saying was that if heaven and hell are real - as in real 'physical' places or whatever - then we will all end up in either one after we die. It doesn't matter if we believe in this life, because all we have is this physical world and like you said, we can't go to heaven and hell if they're only in the mind. But my argument is that if heaven and hell are real places that exist after we die, then we will end up there regardless if we believe in them or not.
Prison and Africa were just examples. If someone's never been or seen any proof that Africa exists, it doesn't mean that they can't be put there. It can exist only in the mind until they're actually put there, at which point it will become and actual place for them. You see what I'm saying?
I do understand what you're saying. *nods* And it makes sense. But, from my point of view, heaven and hell don't exist physically. They exist in the minds of those who believe. So those who don't believe won't end up there, they'll end up wherever they believe they will, e.g. reincarnation. (I'm more likely to believe in that than heaven and hell to be honest)
miau King For A Couple Of Days Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 4469
October 31st, 2007 at 11:03am
bjtp:
PFFT. If God is all loving, why would he condemn those who don't believe to hell? I thought we were all God's children.
Sin separated us from God. But he is loving, he wanted to forgive us, so he let his son, Jesus, die. Jesus paid for the things we've done wrong. He paid for our sins so we can come and be God's children. It's a gift. But of course we have to accept that gift. It's like, I don't know, getting a guitar for your birthday. If you take it you can play on it and be happy. But if you say you don't want it, it will be taken away and you can't play. Simple as that.
Sherlock Board Parasite Age: 39 Gender: Female Posts: 35331
October 31st, 2007 at 11:14am
Yeah, but he doesn't just take it away and send you to like purgatory or whatever, if you dont believe you automatically get sent to hell? Even if you are a good person?
Have I got something for you guys! The other day I was reading the newspaper and this guy wrote a letter to the editorial (or reader form). Here's what he had to say:
After I read that I was like, "This guy is awesome!"
He is so right. If I was Atheist and someone said that to me...I would be speechless.
But, if the only reason you believed in god was because you were scared of hell, you wouldn't go to heaven would you? You would just be self centered and only concerned about yourself. Your religion would be a defense, not a faith. Unicorns might be real... but Im not going to start believeing in them just because it's a possibility.
I found that article to be pretty pointless..
worn-out astronaut. Had A Life Before GSB Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 28177
October 31st, 2007 at 08:02pm
Unicorns are real.
The dude was right in one thing, by believing we don't loose anything. If we die and it turns out that there is no afterlife then well... its not as if we will know and we wont feel stupid for believing in something that doesn't "exsist." XD
But the rest of it was nonsense, he is basically saying that atheists are arrogant and therefor should/will go to hell. He is the most arrogant one for saying that.
Except for the ability to form your own opinions. This doesn't apply to all religious people or all subjects by any means, but for one; homosexuality. Religion has imposed so many negative stereotypes on that subject with people. Religion has been the basis of wars (not the only factor, but a major contribution) and created ethnic gaps within places.
My personal opinion is that religion makes people lose touch with reality. It acts as a safety net and allows them to think "Oh, the (insert something unfair) is ok because the good people go to heaven and the bad people go to hell so it all works out." I don't think that's true and I think it misleads people about others situations in lives. Obviously, alot of you would disagree and you think I'm the one out of touch with reality.
John Entwistle Great Success! Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 55036
October 31st, 2007 at 09:59pm
Well, he was right when he said that Catholics have nothing to lose. Whereas, atheists could find that they will lose everything. It wasn't right for him to call atheists arrogant, but I think for the most part he was right.
I don't believe in God because I'm afraid to go to hell. I believe in God because...well I don't know why I believe in God. Maybe because my parents brought me up to believe in God, I go to church every weekend, I went to a Catholic school for 12 years. I don't know. But I believe in God and nothing will change that. I guess we will all find out when we die.
worn-out astronaut. Had A Life Before GSB Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 28177
October 31st, 2007 at 10:40pm
Kurtni:
Bittersweet.:
by believing we don't loose anything.
Except for the ability to form your own opinions. This doesn't apply to all religious people or all subjects by any means, but for one; homosexuality. Religion has imposed so many negative stereotypes on that subject with people. Religion has been the basis of wars (not the only factor, but a major contribution) and created ethnic gaps within places.
My personal opinion is that religion makes people lose touch with reality. It acts as a safety net and allows them to think "Oh, the (insert something unfair) is ok because the good people go to heaven and the bad people go to hell so it all works out." I don't think that's true and I think it misleads people about others situations in lives. Obviously, alot of you would disagree and you think I'm the one out of touch with reality.
No, you do have a point, but I think there is a difference between being religious and a part of some religion and just believing in something higher than us.
I would be in the later group, sorta someone agnostic, and I wouldn't say I lost my touch with reality.
worn-out astronaut. Had A Life Before GSB Age: 32 Gender: Female Posts: 28177
October 31st, 2007 at 10:42pm
Shadow of a Doubt:
Well, he was right when he said that Catholics have nothing to lose. Whereas, atheists could find that they will lose everything. It wasn't right for him to call atheists arrogant, but I think for the most part he was right.
I don't believe in God because I'm afraid to go to hell. I believe in God because...well I don't know why I believe in God. Maybe because my parents brought me up to believe in God, I go to church every weekend, I went to a Catholic school for 12 years. I don't know. But I believe in God and nothing will change that. I guess we will all find out when we die.
You should seriously find a reason
John Entwistle Great Success! Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 55036
October 31st, 2007 at 10:50pm
Bittersweet.:
Shadow of a Doubt:
Well, he was right when he said that Catholics have nothing to lose. Whereas, atheists could find that they will lose everything. It wasn't right for him to call atheists arrogant, but I think for the most part he was right.
I don't believe in God because I'm afraid to go to hell. I believe in God because...well I don't know why I believe in God. Maybe because my parents brought me up to believe in God, I go to church every weekend, I went to a Catholic school for 12 years. I don't know. But I believe in God and nothing will change that. I guess we will all find out when we die.
You should seriously find a reason
Yeah, I know. I never really thought about it before. But do really have to have a reason. I mean say someone believes in ghost but they never saw one. Then why do they believe in them? Do people really have a reason to believe in anything? I guess you could say the reason I believe is faith.
cabot gal GSBitch Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 76863
October 31st, 2007 at 11:40pm
Shadow of a Doubt:
Have I got something for you guys! The other day I was reading the newspaper and this guy wrote a letter to the editorial (or reader form). Here's what he had to say:
After I read that I was like, "This guy is awesome!"
He is so right. If I was Atheist and someone said that to me...I would be speechless.
I like how he makes fun of Atheists thinking that they're higher than Christians, and then goes and tries to prove that Christians are higher than Atheists
John Entwistle Great Success! Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 55036
November 1st, 2007 at 04:01am
Not everything that guy said was right. But the part where he said that Catholics have nothing to lose and atheists might, that was the part that I agreed with. I said he was awesome, but I didn't say that I agreed with everything he said.
The Doctor Falling In Love With The Board Age: 35 Gender: Female Posts: 8786
November 1st, 2007 at 12:27pm
Then again, what if it's the wrong afterlife and it turns up to be some obscure thing and Anubis ends up weighing your heart against the feather of life or something and if you aren't good enough a demon eats it and if it is then you go to that afterlife.
Like a comedian once said:
Some comedian dude:
It's the day you're meeting your maker. All of the Gods are lined up. You've chosen your God, you're happy with your God. You go up to them and they pull out a card saying "Bluff" How gutting would that be?
And there is a special place in the Christian dogma for good people who are not Christian: Limbo.
It's a special part of Hell were you do not feel pain or anything but you are separated from Heaven. Allegedly, all unbaptised children, all the Jews that were born before Christ and all good people who ain't Christian hang there.
Poor old Limbo, it gets so forgotten.
John Entwistle Great Success! Age: 36 Gender: Female Posts: 55036
Unicorns are real.
