Kitti Falling In Love With The Board Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 5688
April 28th, 2006 at 07:40pm
Quote
His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ] http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm
Research is SUCH a beautiful thing. That literally took ten seconds.
Baguelle King For A Couple Of Days Age: - Gender: - Posts: 2727
April 28th, 2006 at 07:49pm
I shouldn't have to research, if that's directed to me. I was just making a comment. I understand that it was exaggerated, but at least I know that the pledge wasn't written as long ago as I made it seem.
Kitti Falling In Love With The Board Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 5688
April 28th, 2006 at 08:09pm
Basket*Case:
I shouldn't have to research, if that's directed to me. I was just making a comment. I understand that it was exaggerated, but at least I know that the pledge wasn't written as long ago as I made it seem.
For TEN PAGES people have been rambling about how long "under God" has been in that and it was always that way. No. It fucking wasn't. And for all those people that think that, I need to smack you ALL in the face! Seriously, how LAZY can we be?!
To those of you who think the Pledge of Allegiance has always been the way it is today:
Under God was added during the Cold War (that was the one between the United States and the Soviet Union, there were a few minor wars like Korea and Vietnam, an incident known as the Bay of Pigs in Cuba, capitalism fighting to contain communism...we all remember this?) to make those godless commies look even more evil and the devout American capitalist Christians look so superior.
IT'S PROPAGANDA AND WE LEFT IT THERE!
I live in Australia but...I do think that is unfair I mean theres a LOT of religions.
Buddy Christ Falling In Love With The Board Age: 32 Gender: Male Posts: 5821
April 30th, 2006 at 01:24am
im not sure maybe. if the person doesent want to stay "under god" maybe they should just not say it and sit down during,BUT if they want to say the pledg without the "under god" that raises problems.
i hate saying that stupid thing its not a prayer we have to say it every moring at school i just stand up i dont say it
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134
May 1st, 2006 at 09:24am
Basket*Case:
It should stay in. Why tamper with something so old now, when it's been around for so long? And besides, if you don't believe in God or find the pledge offensive, don't say the phrase. It's just that simple.
If nothing ever changed, if tradition was always adhered to just because 'its been around for a long time', the world would be in a very sorry state.
It isn't about not saying it, its much more than that. Its about principle and morals, and maybe it's just because i'm the most unpatriotic person in the world, but this doesn't sit well with me.
And clearly this is an issue which angers Kitti
I've never seen her so angry
Yeah, Kitti gets pissed at religion and politics meshing...and people that are ignorant about it.
"Under God"? It bothers me.
Kitti Falling In Love With The Board Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 5688
May 1st, 2006 at 08:40pm
dirtyhippie:
Yeah, Kitti gets pissed at religion and politics meshing...and people that are ignorant about it.
"Under God"? It bothers me.
It angers me that something so simple as checking facts for once is so difficult to people. "But it's been around so long" BULLSHIT! Fifty three years does not an immovable tradition make. Want to preserve something that's been around for a while, put it back the way it was. Easy.
But what makes me even more angry is that people don't take a strong position on one side or the other. It's an opinion! Decide, you can change your mind later! If we don't look at it from a firm standpoint, we can't progress toward actual definitive knowledge or accurate information.
spill_no_sick Falling In Love With The Board Age: 31 Gender: - Posts: 8588
May 2nd, 2006 at 03:24pm
Kitti:
dirtyhippie:
Yeah, Kitti gets pissed at religion and politics meshing...and people that are ignorant about it.
"Under God"? It bothers me.
It angers me that something so simple as checking facts for once is so difficult to people. "But it's been around so long" BULLSHIT! Fifty three years does not an immovable tradition make. Want to preserve something that's been around for a while, put it back the way it was. Easy.
But what makes me even more angry is that people don't take a strong position on one side or the other. It's an opinion! Decide, you can change your mind later! If we don't look at it from a firm standpoint, we can't progress toward actual definitive knowledge or accurate information.
no wonder you're against it......all the people for it are being retarded.....I hate when I have retards represent me, then my opinion looks bad
alright, I'm going to say this with research, with logic, and WITHOUT BIAS!!!!!
that's right, this isn't bias at all, and my argument isn't something like, "why tamper with tradition." No, what I will say will be something that benifits EVERYONE and without myself in mind.
So if you're only used to propaganda and you don't think you can withstand the shock, leave.
Anyway: I recite the Pledge of Allegiance every morning because I feel allegiance to my country, and the flag is symbolic of that.
Now, I say, "under God", but there is this kid in my class who is from Africa. You know what he says? He says, "under Ala". How freakin' hard was that? No one said, "this is America, change your belief!!!" No one made the Pledge of Allegiance with hope of everyone changing belief...that would be retarded
All you have to do is substitute, "God", with whatever you believe in. Whether it be God, Ala, or "Me", substitute. And it's that easy. Holy crap there is no reason for this to be contraversial, except the fact that there are anti-religious athiests who are descrimitory against specifically Christians (hmmm, some parallel to Nazis?) and they make EVERYTHING a problem. Look, that isn't necesarry, if Christians say, "under God", athiests can say, "under Justice", or most I know would say, "under Me." And those who make this a problem give a bad name to athiesm anyway.
Honestly, some one tell me why this is such a problem without bringing your own religion (including athiesm), or personal benefits or anything that proves how irritating you can be when you're self-centered and think your political veiws are what will change the world BECAUSE I'M FUCKING SICK OF HEARING ABOUT YOU IT DOESN'T MATTER WE ARE PERFECTLY AWARE THAT YOU CAN MAKE POLITICAL DESICIONS THAT HAVE ONLY YOUR BENIFIT IN MIND BUT SORRY YOUR ROYAL FREAKING HIGHNESS THAT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!!!!!!
I seriously think the only friction on this subject is the people who are self centered when they debate it. I said my argument, currently it works when I have six different religious groups in my class, so "God" isn't the only thing I hear first period. Please find something wrong with that, but don't tell me about "separation of Church and State" because no one is thrown in jail for this.
NeoSteph Basket Case Age: 37 Gender: Female Posts: 16494
May 2nd, 2006 at 04:43pm
Why is it always religion that becomes so controversial, if you don't believe in it don't freaking say it.
I don't live in america but i'm pretty sure your not held at gun point to resite it in class.
I go to a catholic school so a part of the morning ritual is reciting the Hail mary, i'm not catholic so i just bow my head and let the kiddies get on with it. you don't have to make a big fuss about it, different people have traditions.
and seeing as it takes a few goes for some of you to understand a point, I completely agree with Kitti's turn of events.
The section 'under god' was introduced in 1954 when the fear of communism sweeping over america was the craze.
Like all drastic movements it works on extremes, ''under god'' does seem to jepordize the relationship between non chrisitans and christian, the same way communism did.
I'm not in favor with the phrase ''under god'' being present in any national saying especially in a country which is formed on many different nations. It's the same reasons i don't believe that gay marriage should ever be presented in a religious ceremony.
Politics and religion should always be kept seperate, peoples beliefs should not be controlled by law, obviously peoples actions should be.
spill_no_sick Falling In Love With The Board Age: 31 Gender: - Posts: 8588
May 2nd, 2006 at 04:48pm
NeoSteph:
Why is it always religion that becomes so controversial, if you don't believe in it don't freaking say it.
I don't live in america but i'm pretty sure your not held at gun point to resite it in class.
I go to a catholic school so a part of the morning ritual is reciting the Hail mary, i'm not catholic so i just bow my head and let the kiddies get on with it. you don't have to make a big fuss about it, different people have traditions.
and seeing as it takes a few goes for some of you to understand a point, I completely agree with Kitti's turn of events.
The section 'under god' was introduced in 1954 when the fear of communism sweeping over america was the craze.
Like all drastic movements it works on extremes, ''under god'' does seem to jepordize the relationship between non chrisitans and christian, the same way communism did.
I'm not in favor with the phrase ''under god'' being present in any national saying especially in a country which is formed on many different nations. It's the same reasons i don't believe that gay marriage should ever be presented in a religious ceremony.
Politics and religion should always be kept seperate, peoples beliefs should not be controlled by law, obviously peoples actions should be.
that's cool, but Kitti did say it.
I'm so anxious for some one to actually read what I read.....please?!?!!
NeoSteph Basket Case Age: 37 Gender: Female Posts: 16494
May 2nd, 2006 at 04:53pm
spill_no_sick:
NeoSteph:
Why is it always religion that becomes so controversial, if you don't believe in it don't freaking say it.
I don't live in america but i'm pretty sure your not held at gun point to resite it in class.
I go to a catholic school so a part of the morning ritual is reciting the Hail mary, i'm not catholic so i just bow my head and let the kiddies get on with it. you don't have to make a big fuss about it, different people have traditions.
and seeing as it takes a few goes for some of you to understand a point, I completely agree with Kitti's turn of events.
The section 'under god' was introduced in 1954 when the fear of communism sweeping over america was the craze.
Like all drastic movements it works on extremes, ''under god'' does seem to jepordize the relationship between non chrisitans and christian, the same way communism did.
I'm not in favor with the phrase ''under god'' being present in any national saying especially in a country which is formed on many different nations. It's the same reasons i don't believe that gay marriage should ever be presented in a religious ceremony.
Politics and religion should always be kept seperate, peoples beliefs should not be controlled by law, obviously peoples actions should be.
that's cool, but Kitti did say it.
I'm so anxious for some one to actually read what I read.....please?!?!!
yesh...hence why i mentioned her.
I did read your post. Just don't have anything to disagree with. Hello by the way stranger.
spill_no_sick Falling In Love With The Board Age: 31 Gender: - Posts: 8588
May 2nd, 2006 at 04:59pm
NeoSteph:
spill_no_sick:
NeoSteph:
Why is it always religion that becomes so controversial, if you don't believe in it don't freaking say it.
I don't live in america but i'm pretty sure your not held at gun point to resite it in class.
I go to a catholic school so a part of the morning ritual is reciting the Hail mary, i'm not catholic so i just bow my head and let the kiddies get on with it. you don't have to make a big fuss about it, different people have traditions.
and seeing as it takes a few goes for some of you to understand a point, I completely agree with Kitti's turn of events.
The section 'under god' was introduced in 1954 when the fear of communism sweeping over america was the craze.
Like all drastic movements it works on extremes, ''under god'' does seem to jepordize the relationship between non chrisitans and christian, the same way communism did.
I'm not in favor with the phrase ''under god'' being present in any national saying especially in a country which is formed on many different nations. It's the same reasons i don't believe that gay marriage should ever be presented in a religious ceremony.
Politics and religion should always be kept seperate, peoples beliefs should not be controlled by law, obviously peoples actions should be.
that's cool, but Kitti did say it.
I'm so anxious for some one to actually read what I read.....please?!?!!
yesh...hence why i mentioned her.
I did read your post. Just don't have anything to disagree with. Hello by the way stranger.
I seriously think the only friction on this subject is the people who are self centered when they debate it. I said my argument, currently it works when I have six different religious groups in my class, so "God" isn't the only thing I hear first period. Please find something wrong with that, but don't tell me about "separation of Church and State" because no one is thrown in jail for this.
Well, separation of church and state doesn't have really anything to do with throwing people in jail. It has to do with the fact that religion cannot be passed into law and et cetera. By the law of this separation, Congress was acting at least somewhat improperly when they made a bill saying this...
And correct me if I'm somehow wrong, but I have heard numerous reports of detentions given out for not saying the pledge or not standing up, etc., as a form of protest. I'll check.
Lastly, welcome back Nick!
Matt Smith Admin Age: 33 Gender: Female Posts: 31134
May 2nd, 2006 at 06:02pm
spill_no_sick:
All you have to do is substitute, "God", with whatever you believe in. Whether it be God, Ala, or "Me", substitute. And it's that easy. Holy crap there is no reason for this to be contraversial, except the fact that there are anti-religious athiests who are descrimitory against specifically Christians (hmmm, some parallel to Nazis?) and they make EVERYTHING a problem. Look, that isn't necesarry, if Christians say, "under God", athiests can say, "under Justice", or most I know would say, "under Me." And those who make this a problem give a bad name to athiesm anyway.
I'd also like to add it isn't only atheists who have a problem with the pledge..
robotchicken. Falling In Love With The Board Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 8423
May 2nd, 2006 at 08:23pm
I hate saying it. I have nothing against America its just......showing respect to a flag? Its just a "thing" Its not like it gave any respect towards me. I should say that next time the teacher says to show respect. I know it annoys some people. Cause teachers do force people to say it. Which isnt right at all.
I hate saying it. I have nothing against America its just......showing respect to a flag? Its just a "thing" Its not like it gave any respect towards me. I should say that next time the teacher says to show respect. I know it annoys some people. Cause teachers do force people to say it. Which isnt right at all.
They can't legally force you to say it, at least in my state. Honestly, it doesnt bother me that much when people don't, but I know this girl in my first hour science who's father died in Iraq and it does mean something to her, so I say it out of respect. I mean, her dad (or it may have been brother, Im not sure) died to preserve the "liberty and justice for all" so I really dont see the big deal. America is a country founded on Christianty, so I dont think the "under God" should be taken out, it's historic, but if it does go against your religion, ignore it.
Plug In Baby. Addict Age: 34 Gender: Female Posts: 11334
May 3rd, 2006 at 12:29am
NeoSteph:
I go to a catholic school so a part of the morning ritual is reciting the Hail mary, i'm not catholic so i just bow my head and let the kiddies get on with it. you don't have to make a big fuss about it, different people have traditions.
Yeah, exactly. Its the same situation with me, I'm not catholic, I don't believe in god, I don't make a big fuss out of it, I just don't pray while everyone else does. I'm not a person to make a bit fuss out of things, so while all those people who are trying to appear 'goth' and therefore feel they need to be satanic are making a bit fuss going about how god if full of shit, I just ignore them, and just, its a simple as this, don't say it.
When we have to go get communion during masses sometimes I don't go, but sometimes I do just to make it easier for myself so I don't have masses of people calling me satan or something again
When at easter mass we had to touch the cross, well, you could if you wanted to, everyone went up but me. Well, almost everone, it looked like that to me.
