Dress codes

Hmmm,
I have never really worried about that,
Or has it effected my work habbits.

I think wearing skirts, if that's what girl really do have to wear,
Would make me the most worried of all.

Oh, I don't really know all that much about them, I have never been to a school with uniforms.
But, I don't like trousers....so I would a skirt D:

I can't stand uniforms.
Teachers and other school officials pretend they want kids to be themselves and be individuals, and then they force everyone to dress the same? I call bullshit.

And the idea that kids won't make fun of each other if they all dress the same is complete bs. Uniforms don't make people have the "perfect" bodies, they don't straighten peoples teeth, they don't fix a persons voice, they don't make a person taller or shorter, they don't clear a persons skin, etc..., anyone who thinks middle schoolers and high schoolers won't find a reason to harass their classmates has never been in a middle school or a high school.
Throughout middle school and high school, I heard "you're fat/retarded/gay/ugly" WAY more than I ever heard anybody being mocked for not being able to afford the right clothes. A uniform won't change that.
And how hard is it to go from "look how cheap her outfit looks" to "look how fat she looks in her uniform."

And how do we expect kids to be proud of who they are and learn to express themselves if we force them to look like everybody else? Individual expression is good.

^ I agree with this. I think sometimes people underestimate how cruel kids are. I went to a school with uniforms. People were bullied because they had different hair, wore glasses, were intelligent, were overweight, lived in certain areas, didn't wear makeup...really, if you can't bully someone for their clothes, you just find something else.

I suppose the real argument here is "should everyone have to wear uniforms just because some kids are too immature to accept that people are different and will therefore wear different things?"

iViva la Andrea!:

Throughout middle school and high school, I heard "you're fat/retarded/gay/ugly" WAY more than I ever heard anybody being mocked for not being able to afford the right clothes. A uniform won't change that.
And how hard is it to go from "look how cheap her outfit looks" to "look how fat she looks in her uniform."

That's just kids being kids though .
It would happen perhaps even more so if we eliminate the uniform.

Sherlock Holmes:

iViva la Andrea!:

Throughout middle school and high school, I heard "you're fat/retarded/gay/ugly" WAY more than I ever heard anybody being mocked for not being able to afford the right clothes. A uniform won't change that.
And how hard is it to go from "look how cheap her outfit looks" to "look how fat she looks in her uniform."

That's just kids being kids though .
It would happen perhaps even more so if we eliminate the uniform.

That's exactly my point.
Harassment happens whether you take away an important form of individual expression or not.

I know people who have been to schools that have uniforms and people who don't. It doesn't happen more. Kids are cruel, even to people who look the same.
It's harder to learn to respect differences when you're forced to pretend there are none. Trying to make everybody into the same person doesn't all of a sudden turn everybody into open-minded and kind human beings with hearts of gold, in fact, I see it doing more harm than good. We aren't meant to talk, think, look, or dress the same. We're meant to be individuals, and for someone to think they can take any bit of that away from people because they're on a school board is completely backwards, power-mongering thinking.

It's 100000000% hypocritical to have a teacher or a principal say "be yourself" and "be proud of who you are" and then turn around and say "we're going to dress you all the same."

I Think You Should Be Able To Wear What You Want, But In Ours School They Won't Let Us Wear What We Want Cuz Some People Have Better Clothes That Others :S

it's just clothes that you have to wear 8-3 during school days i mean, you can ~express~ yourself in a different way than just your clothes. idk maybe it's cause i've been brought up in england and that's always been the way, but going to college now in my own clothes was so fucking hard at first (and still is some days) because you have to decide what to wear or what not to wear, and it's SO much more expensive as well, because you can't get away with wearing the same shirt two days in a row as easily as you could at school because no one would notice unless you actually proper smelt or something.

iViva la Andrea!:

It's 100000000% hypocritical to have a teacher or a principal say "be yourself" and "be proud of who you are" and then turn around and say "we're going to dress you all the same."

Clothes aren't necessary to the identity of the individual.
I'm sorry, but they're just not. I have an obscene amount of clothes, I would gladly spend all of my time shopping for them, I love clothing and fashion in general. But they're not necessary to who I am. I think if you have to depend on your clothing to make you an ~individual, well, I think you must be a pretty boring person otherwise because there's so much more to a person than the bits of fabric on their body.

I'm not all that bothered about the whole ~omg but my clothes are my whole identity and you're taking it away thing.

It's more that few of the arguments for uniforms are actually any good.
I was picked on constantly in school and we had uniforms. I now do not have a uniform and I can get ready quicker and feel more comfortable. Just makes more sense, really.

Of course clothes aren't NECESSARY for individuality, but your appearance is a form of self-expression. Please show me where I said that clothing makes a person an individual. I have made it a point to specifically say "a part of who you are," "a part of your individual expression," etc...,

Hair, makeup, accessories, and clothes are all a part of expression. To deny that is simply blinding yourself.

And having multiple forms of self-expression doesn't change the fact that it's hypocritical for a person to pretend they want you to be yourself and express yourself and then force you to look like everybody around you.

iViva la Andrea!:

It's 100000000% hypocritical to have a teacher or a principal say "be yourself" and "be proud of who you are" and then turn around and say "we're going to dress you all the same."

It has nothing to do
The uniform at school was first introduced so that nobody can make a distinction between the different classes. So whether you were part of lower class or upper middle class, there was no chance for people to differentiate people by their clothes (and lack of them).

[quote="Cecilia"]

iViva la Andrea!:

It's 100000000% hypocritical to have a teacher or a principal say "be yourself" and "be proud of who you are" and then turn around and say "we're going to dress you all the same."

It's not hypocritical,
the have to abide by a dress code as well.

How is it not hypocritical to pretend to encourage individual expression and being unique and then forcing people to dress like everybody else?

That would be like me saying "it's good to learn to play an instrument, everybody should do it," and then trying to get guitars banned.

"Express yourself, be yourself... dress like everybody else." "Be unique, look like everybody around you." If that isn't hypocrisy, nothing is.

Also, is there a reason nobody is acknowldging any of my other points?

iViva la Andrea!:

How is it not hypocritical to pretend to encourage individual expression and being unique and then forcing people to dress like everybody else?

That would be like me saying "it's good to learn to play an instrument, everybody should do it," and then trying to get guitars banned.

"Express yourself, be yourself... dress like everybody else." "Be unique, look like everybody around you." If that isn't hypocrisy, nothing is.

Also, is there a reason nobody is acknowldging any of my other points?

No, you have your opinion and I disagree, that's pretty much it.
Read 3 posts above.

I have.
They don't even begin to explain how saying "be unique, look like everybody else" isn't hypocrisy.
They don't even begin to address that harassment doesn't disappear if two people are wearing the same outfit.
They don't even begin to explain how making everybody dress the same encourages tolerance, respect, and multiple forms of individuality.

iViva la Andrea!:

They don't even begin to explain how saying "be unique, look like everybody else" isn't hypocrisy.

As has been said before, your uniqueness is not down entirely to clothes. If you define your freedom of self expression as being able to wear whatever t-shirt you want, then it doesn't say much about your personality on the inside if you're judging how unique someone is by what they wear.

iViva la Andrea!:

They don't even begin to address that harassment doesn't disappear if two people are wearing the same outfit.

It doesn't. Harassment will occur everywhere, uniform or not.

iViva la Andrea!:

They don't even begin to explain how making everybody dress the same encourages tolerance, respect, and multiple forms of individuality.

Uniform prepares you for the ~working world~ and thus encourages tolerance of what your boss would expect for you to wear to work. You respect your boss' rules by wearing what is appropriate for your work.

But there are other ways to express your inividuality than clothing, isn't there?
I went to a catholic school, and we had quite a strict uniform, and I didn't lose myself in the crowd. And I didn't feel like other brunettes with a skirt were doppelgänger of me.

Surely what you do and how you act around people, that's the most important thing that determines who you are. Not what shirt you're wearing or what colour your hair is?

Well yer, I have nothing against uniforms.