Was Hitler a weak or strong dictator? Did he do any good?

To be honest, no, the good does not out way the bad,
And no he didn't cure cancer.
But still,
I look up to the good strong aspects of Hitler,
And I leave it at that.

And,
I see 60-70 years ago as a long time ago...I don't know, that's just me I suppose.

Nada.:

^ I look past it, because it's History.
Now, I might view it differen't if it were happening now, or did in the past year or two.
But I mean, it was forever ago.

And North Italy,
I'd say we're both at fault.
So lets just stop, if that's agreed?

So, you live for the 'here and now', huh?

History is very important. It's not just something you can ignore. History is what happened to my ancestors and your ancestors and so on. History is a series of mistakes that we learn about, and in learning about them hopefully learn and therefore do not repeat them. If you did something great, would you want people 60-70 years from now saying, "Well, it's history. It's not really that important."? I wouldn't. PEOPLE DIED. You seem to have difficulty grasping the concept that millions of people died horrible deaths at the hands of a madman. But I've already went over that. My point is, just because it isn't recent, doesn't mean it's unimportant.

And also, I'm just wondering how either of us is at fault. I'm not trying to start anything, I'm sincerely questioning.

And I do want to stop arguing, but this isn't something that I take very lightly. I think it's perfectly fine for you to idolize anyone you want, this being a free country and all, but you can't just decide that history is unimportant because it's not supporting your argument. And I implore you to put yourself in someone else's shoes for just a bit; try to see things the way I see it, or the way Holocaust survivors see it, or the way historians see it, or the way people in Germany see it, or the way the people in the camps saw it.

But I guess that's where I'm at fault, so I just answered my own question, eh?

Nada.:

And,
I see 60-70 years ago as a long time ago...I don't know, that's just me I suppose.

People who were alive 60-70 years ago, and who survived the Holocaust, probably don't see it as a long time ago. Have some compassion.

Exactly. I'm talking to my uncle about this right now. He agrees that Hitler did do SOME good. A little bit. But that in NO WAY outweighs the bad. He was batshit insane. He started World War Two, for God's sakes!

He also told me this really horrible joke:

Q: Why did Hitler shoot himself?
A: He got the gas bill.

-.- But anyway, you can't just look past all the bad he did in favor of the small amount of good, because the bad so heavily outweighs the good. Saying 'History isn't important' is just an ignorant answer. And not reading the arguments of the other person, then pointing it out and going to your own flimsy arguments is ignorant and rude as well. You just ignore everything everyone else says, even if we take what you say and your argument into account and then make an analytical argument. You do not do that, which is why it is very hard to talk to you. Just sayin'.

I grasp the death's of millions, in terrible ways.
I grasp the concept of learning history,
I grasp that we we should learn an never do such things again,
I am not dumb.

I just don't let it controle my life, not that you do,
You just seem to hold it closer to your heart, if that's s good way of putting that.

I can't carry weight of what terrible ways my people and family were killed
By 60 to 70 years ago, I have no time to worry about it,
There is nothing I can possibly do about any of it,
And I wont try.

I need to worry about what may happen to me, and my people, and friends and family NOW.

I see where you're coming from,
And I have though and tryed to put myself in such places,
And I never will be able to, neither will you,
Only they truly can.

You have taken me saying that I look up to Hitler as a hero,
For how smart he was,
and his leadership, and his good aspects,
And made it into this.
You do understand.
It's not like said I find the fact that he killed Jews amazing, and did it in creative ways, and think it's cool.
That I would deserve to be attacked for, [not to say you are attacking me, because you aren't.]

Hmmm, and I don't mean for this to sound like I have an additude.

Nada.:

I grasp the death's of millions, in terrible ways.
I grasp the concept of learning history,
I grasp that we we should learn an never do such things again,
I am not dumb.

I just don't let it controle my life, not that you do,
You just seem to hold it closer to your heart, if that's s good way of putting that.

I can't carry weight of what terrible ways my people and family were killed
By 60 to 70 years ago, I have no time to worry about it,
There is nothing I can possibly do about any of it,
And I wont try.

I need to worry about what may happen to me, and my people, and friends and family NOW.

I see where you're coming from,
And I have though and tryed to put myself in such places,
And I never will be able to, neither will you,
Only they truly can.

You have taken me saying that I look up to Hitler as a hero,
For how smart he was,
and his leadership, and his good aspects,
And made it into this.
You do understand.
It's not like said I find the fact that he killed Jews amazing, and did it in creative ways, and think it's cool.
That I would deserve to be attacked for, [not to say you are attacking me, because you aren't.]

Hmmm, and I don't mean for this to sound like I have an additude.

I hope you don't take any offense from this, because a friend of mine said it might be seen as rude, but that's probably the nicest most understanding thing you've said throughout this mockery of an argument. But basically, you didn't sound like you had an attitude.

I call it a mockery of an argument for this reason: We are both 'arguing' with each other about something where we have completely different views, yet they are still strikingly similar in ways. We are each passionate about our arguments, and we both think we are right, because we are both right. And in that sense, we are also both wrong.

It's really quite funny when you think about it.

Also, I know that we can't truly put ourselves in their shoes, but we can try to see it their way as best we can without the experience. We can look at the facts and the testimonies and the pictures and the evidence and everything and have a large grasp on what happened, but it will never be enough because we weren't there, and we aren't from that time. Yet, we can still, with our vast yet limited knowledge, compose a feeling of empathy that washes through us to the point where some jackass looking to piss people off by sporting a swastika or whatever fills us with rage and we have to try our damnedest not to grab the nearest blunt object and scream, "HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW, MOTHERFUCKER?!" and bludgeon them with it mercilessly. That's what I feel. And my familial ties with the Holocaust make it difficult for me to put myself in the shoes of someone like you, who admires him for the good things he did, especially because (a) I am a pessimist of the highest degree and was called jaded by an adult in one of my most optomistic moments, and (b) I tend to see the worst in people through past experiences with idiots who literally tried to kill me because they were bored and thought it would be funny. But I do. It gives me a vague understanding of your thoughts, but not to the point where I would change or where I completely understand, because I couldn't do either. I DO hold this close to my heart. I hold it closer than you could possibly imagine, like a piece of glass that would shatter if I loosened my grip the slightest bit, but sometimes I grip it too tight and a shard will break off and stab me in the heart. When I try to think about the time period and what happened, I grip it that tightly, because it hurts me. Learning about WWII or anything that happened during that era literally physically hurts me no matter what. Great countries fell, and Communism reigned throughout Eastern Europe. No matter what side the countries were on, nobody deserved what happened after the war. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the dissolution of Prussia, the Allied attacks on Germany and Italy, the occupations... None of that should have happened, no matter what side they were on, because Adolf Hitler promised them safety and power and all their dreams if they would join him, and they did, as did the German people. And the entire world suffered for it, especially those who were supposed to be protected by him. It's horrible.

Nothing that happened then should have happened, but it did. I know that I can't change any of it no matter how much I wish I could, and I don't try to. But... I just feel it. This is a part of me. Ever since I was six years old it has been, and probably longer though I don't remember. As a small child I would have dreams in someone else's point of view during that time period, and when I watched the History Channel special on WWII with my daddy it was all a review of my dreams, with some things I didn't know. And it felt weird. My friends think I'm reincarnated from that era, and I don't know whether I believe them or whether they're right, but I don't really care because no matter what I'll always feel the same way, and it doesn't matter why or how I feel the way I do because I just do.

And I'm sorry if I've been rude at all. But that's why. Truce?

I have just skimed that,
No need to read it all.

I don't think I am right,
I just see it that way, it's my opinion of the subject,
You can't be right or wrong with an opinion or veiw on something.

The history and facts are the same no matter the view.

I have studied the Holocaust a TON,
I have read up on it,
Researched it,
I find it as one of the more ineresting thing's that have ever happend.
So I dodn't need to be told about it and what happend,
Once again, I am not stupid....

I am dead set on it, people do bad things,
Doesn't make them bad people.

I am sorry for your family.
But you never meant them to take it to such heart.
And by chance you did know them, disregard that.

But sure, truce, we might as well stop rambling.

I didn't know them, but from what I heard from my grandmother they were wonderful people.

I'm not saying you're stupid, because you're not. I'm just stating my opinion, as are you.

But now we have reached an impasse. Well, we've been at an impasse for quite a while, but just kept going and haven't acknowledged it until now.

Point is, I'm gonna shut up now. Just wanted to point out that I never insinuated that you were stupid or anything.

Haha okay.
:].

AtPeace.
:].

Hehe... We just effectively ended a war.

lol, I suppose,
And no one was killed either!
I think that's a pretty good war right "thurrr"

Oh, the "And no one was killed either" things wasn't to be a smart ass...

Ha, I know.

The pen is mightier than the sword, but nobody uses pens anymore because keyboards pwn them. Then again, nobody uses swords either...

So really, the keyboard is the mightiest of all.

Just take world leaders and put them on forums to duke it out there. After a while they'll get bored and work something out.

lmao
Well, it seem's as if that is what has happend here.

Really,
There was no point behind our argument XD

We better stop though before we get in trouble for being off topic

Uh, yes.

Ahem: Hitler was strong. He did some good, it doesn't outweigh the bad, and we are not off topic.

There. Officially back on-topic.

Also, I saw this one website with Hitler quotes, and a lot of them are actually smart. Yeah, some are bigoted, assuming, and rude, but a lot of them are smart. And the one that will always stick in my mind is this:

"No one will ask the victor whether or not he told the truth." He's also got a lot of good ones about lying.

^ yes,
:].

What a great man, based on inteligents.
:].

I honestly don't think that his soul intention was to do what he did,
With killing of Minoritys and what not.
I think that just one thing led to another, and snowballed.

*cough* Actually, there are quotes that disprove that:

“I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature”
“Any alliance whose purpose is not the intention to wage war is senseless and useless.”
“The leader of genius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category.”
“Anyone who sees and paints a sky green and fields blue ought to be sterilized.”
“Humanitarianism is the expression of stupidity and cowardice”
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: - by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord”

Yeah, I can't help but think he knew exactly what he was doing, ordering these people to be killed.

Well...influencial, yes. A bit bonkers, yes. Anti-Semantic, yep. Dictator, yep. Strong, I guess although very paranoid as time went on.

But it's not all down to Hitler. There was a lot of that sort of thing back then. Concentration camps were used by the British against the Zulus (I think). Popular theory of the time stated a poly-genesis, i.e. that Jewish people, black people, Asian etc were of different species and that apparently, Aryan was tip-sodding-top. And Jewish people have been used as scapegoats since Christians started to stop being the scapegoat, really.

The Holocaust was a triumph (I'm not too keen on the word but I don't know what else to say :/) of bueracracy and psychology. The thing to remember is that he used some clever techniques to manipulate a depressed populace.

And he was voted man of the year by Time magazine in 1937.

But...I dunno.

I think Stalin beats him in the dictatorship stakes.

True...

And that dude with in North Korea, Kim Jong-Il or something, and how he won't let his people have any other culture but their own and yet he's obsessed with Daffy Duck, and has parades in his own honour or something.

Prussia:

True...

And that dude with in North Korea, Kim Jong-Il or something, and how he won't let his people have any other culture but their own and yet he's obsessed with Daffy Duck, and has parades in his own honour or something.

Kim Jong-Il is absolutely obsessed with Hollywood and films. Kinda ironic.

I s'pose if you're in such a position, you're bound to go a bit screwball.