Child molestation

Also, were you molested? Because if you were, then my argument is dead. To the victims, it probably wouldn't matter if the offender were a fairy angel who was having a bad day. They'd want to see him suffer.

But even that can't be completely trusted as a judgement because of course you'd want to see someone suffer when they made you suffer. Justice is not vengeance.

Chandramukhi.:

tyco:

i would make them suffer.. as i keep saying nothing excuses what they have done not even insanity!... NOTHING!.
and im not saying lock all the loons up just the ones who are a danger to others. such as murderers and child molesters.

How can serious mental illness not excuse crime? I'm not saying it's okay for someone with a low IQ to be like "Uh...I'm retarded. Acquit me." But if someone is totally and completely deranged, they need help. Not punishment.

because what they have done is not excuse able.. they dont deserve help.. and to be honest the best way to help them is to lock them up and to throw away the key.. child abuse is disgusting whoever it comes from.

tyco:

Chandramukhi.:

tyco:

i would make them suffer.. as i keep saying nothing excuses what they have done not even insanity!... NOTHING!.
and im not saying lock all the loons up just the ones who are a danger to others. such as murderers and child molesters.

How can serious mental illness not excuse crime? I'm not saying it's okay for someone with a low IQ to be like "Uh...I'm retarded. Acquit me." But if someone is totally and completely deranged, they need help. Not punishment.

because what they have done is not excuse able.. they dont deserve help.. and to be honest the best way to help them is to lock them up and to throw away the key.. child abuse is disgusting whoever it comes from.

Why is it not excusable when the victim has no idea what his actions/consequences are? If you can type me five full complete sentences as to why mentally unstable molesters should recieve no help, I'll stop arguing with you. Mind you, I want good reasons without circular logic.

Chandramukhi.:

Also, were you molested? Because if you were, then my argument is dead. To the victims, it probably wouldn't matter if the offender were a fairy angel who was having a bad day. They'd want to see him suffer.

But even that can't be completely trusted as a judgement because of course you'd want to see someone suffer when they made you suffer. Justice is not vengeance.

i am adopted.. before i was adopted i went into a few horrible mistake carehomes.
one of which with a child molester... i was only 2 so if i was molesterd then i dont think i would even know really.. but there is no evidence of it, but we think my sister was molesterd at some point even if none of us where the thought ofit disgusts me, and i would feel the same whatever to be honest.

i was adopted cause my parents where not the nicest of people either but not molesters.

and no no argument is dead unless you make it stick by your morals and i will stick by mine.. but we have to realise neither is wrong really it just depends on who looks at it.

tyco:

Chandramukhi.:

Also, were you molested? Because if you were, then my argument is dead. To the victims, it probably wouldn't matter if the offender were a fairy angel who was having a bad day. They'd want to see him suffer.

But even that can't be completely trusted as a judgement because of course you'd want to see someone suffer when they made you suffer. Justice is not vengeance.

i am adopted.. before i was adopted i went into a few horrible mistake carehomes.
one of which with a child molester... i was only 2 so if i was molesterd then i dont think i would even know really.. but there is no evidence of it, but we think my sister was molesterd at some point even if none of us where the thought ofit disgusts me, and i would feel the same whatever to be honest.

i was adopted cause my parents where not the nicest of people either but not molesters.

and no no argument is dead unless you make it stick by your morals and i will stick by mine.. but we have to realise neither is wrong really it just depends on who looks at it.

I don't really think agreeing to disagree works right now. I would really like to know why, exactly why you think its right for a mentally ill molester to be denied help and locked up.

Chandramukhi.:

tyco:

Chandramukhi.:

Also, were you molested? Because if you were, then my argument is dead. To the victims, it probably wouldn't matter if the offender were a fairy angel who was having a bad day. They'd want to see him suffer.

But even that can't be completely trusted as a judgement because of course you'd want to see someone suffer when they made you suffer. Justice is not vengeance.

i am adopted.. before i was adopted i went into a few horrible mistake carehomes.
one of which with a child molester... i was only 2 so if i was molesterd then i dont think i would even know really.. but there is no evidence of it, but we think my sister was molesterd at some point even if none of us where the thought ofit disgusts me, and i would feel the same whatever to be honest.

i was adopted cause my parents where not the nicest of people either but not molesters.

and no no argument is dead unless you make it stick by your morals and i will stick by mine.. but we have to realise neither is wrong really it just depends on who looks at it.

I don't really think agreeing to disagree works right now. I would really like to know why, exactly why you think its right for a mentally ill molester to be denied help and locked up.

lol that didnt mean by anymeans that i didnt wanna have this coversation with you, but both of us are very stubborn minded so we know this isnt really gonna go anywhere.

but sure..

i think they should be locked up for the ammount of suffering the child has to g through so they at least come close to something that child goes through for the rest of its life constantly mentally scared and physically too.
also you hear all the time of these people who get the help and then intergrate back into the main stream society and the they do exactly the same thing again my point here is why take the risk anyways.. its like saying if we take a knife from a murderer then let them back out.. no one would do that would they? so why give a child molester another chance to do exactly the same thing its sick.
these people are obviously sick and and i dont want them around to harm anymore children.
they dont deserve the chance to get better cause they didnt give the child a choice so why should they get choices?
i also think its kinder not only for the children and there loved ones and everyone else but also for the molester cause then they are no where near kids and cant do the same thing again.

dose that cover it?

scarred*

tyco:

Chandramukhi.:

Also, were you molested? Because if you were, then my argument is dead. To the victims, it probably wouldn't matter if the offender were a fairy angel who was having a bad day. They'd want to see him suffer.

But even that can't be completely trusted as a judgement because of course you'd want to see someone suffer when they made you suffer. Justice is not vengeance.

i am adopted.. before i was adopted i went into a few horrible mistake carehomes.
one of which with a child molester... i was only 2 so if i was molesterd then i dont think i would even know really.. but there is no evidence of it, but we think my sister was molesterd at some point even if none of us where the thought ofit disgusts me, and i would feel the same whatever to be honest.

i was adopted cause my parents where not the nicest of people either but not molesters.

and no no argument is dead unless you make it stick by your morals and i will stick by mine.. but we have to realise neither is wrong really it just depends on who looks at it.

i was molested over a few years, it was a regular thing, i came to realise that, that was my lot in life (For a while at least) but then i realised that it was wrong and i shouldn't be going through that (no one should), he was a friend of the family's, i was at a friends house one night and we were watching that child line programme that was on many years ago, and i just said to my friend that i was being abused, she then went to see her mum and told her, i was then taken to school the next day and the police were called, i gave a statement and the guy was questioned, he said yes he did it, and that he would do it again, the police then spoke with my mum because i was only 13 at the time and she said that she didnt want a fuss made (because his wife was dieing) and all charges were dropped, my point it that i dont want to make the guy suffer, he is dead now and he suffered enough when he was dieing, (he died slowly and nastly) i want to make my mum suffer for not pressing charges and not moveing away because we lived next door to him, she wouldnt even talk to me about it she just pushed me away after that, so my mum is the person that should suffer.

Lucifers Angel:

tyco:

Chandramukhi.:

Also, were you molested? Because if you were, then my argument is dead. To the victims, it probably wouldn't matter if the offender were a fairy angel who was having a bad day. They'd want to see him suffer.

But even that can't be completely trusted as a judgement because of course you'd want to see someone suffer when they made you suffer. Justice is not vengeance.

i am adopted.. before i was adopted i went into a few horrible mistake carehomes.
one of which with a child molester... i was only 2 so if i was molesterd then i dont think i would even know really.. but there is no evidence of it, but we think my sister was molesterd at some point even if none of us where the thought ofit disgusts me, and i would feel the same whatever to be honest.

i was adopted cause my parents where not the nicest of people either but not molesters.

and no no argument is dead unless you make it stick by your morals and i will stick by mine.. but we have to realise neither is wrong really it just depends on who looks at it.

i was molested over a few years, it was a regular thing, i came to realise that, that was my lot in life (For a while at least) but then i realised that it was wrong and i shouldn't be going through that (no one should), he was a friend of the family's, i was at a friends house one night and we were watching that child line programme that was on many years ago, and i just said to my friend that i was being abused, she then went to see her mum and told her, i was then taken to school the next day and the police were called, i gave a statement and the guy was questioned, he said yes he did it, and that he would do it again, the police then spoke with my mum because i was only 13 at the time and she said that she didnt want a fuss made (because his wife was dieing) and all charges were dropped, my point it that i dont want to make the guy suffer, he is dead now and he suffered enough when he was dieing, (he died slowly and nastly) i want to make my mum suffer for not pressing charges and not moveing away because we lived next door to him, she wouldnt even talk to me about it she just pushed me away after that, so my mum is the person that should suffer.

well yes i agree your mum wasnt very helpfull and supportive and thats what people who go through that kinda thing need.
and im glad he sufferd cause he is a jerk and i think your mum was wrong for not doing anything about it because he could easily do it again if not to you to some other poor child. your mum has just as many issues as he has no offence but that is just as disgusting!

can i ask did it stop afterwards and where there rumors of him doing it to anyone else?
did he still come over what was it like after he got caught?

tyco:

Lucifers Angel:

tyco:

Chandramukhi.:

Also, were you molested? Because if you were, then my argument is dead. To the victims, it probably wouldn't matter if the offender were a fairy angel who was having a bad day. They'd want to see him suffer.

But even that can't be completely trusted as a judgement because of course you'd want to see someone suffer when they made you suffer. Justice is not vengeance.

i am adopted.. before i was adopted i went into a few horrible mistake carehomes.
one of which with a child molester... i was only 2 so if i was molesterd then i dont think i would even know really.. but there is no evidence of it, but we think my sister was molesterd at some point even if none of us where the thought ofit disgusts me, and i would feel the same whatever to be honest.

i was adopted cause my parents where not the nicest of people either but not molesters.

and no no argument is dead unless you make it stick by your morals and i will stick by mine.. but we have to realise neither is wrong really it just depends on who looks at it.

i was molested over a few years, it was a regular thing, i came to realise that, that was my lot in life (For a while at least) but then i realised that it was wrong and i shouldn't be going through that (no one should), he was a friend of the family's, i was at a friends house one night and we were watching that child line programme that was on many years ago, and i just said to my friend that i was being abused, she then went to see her mum and told her, i was then taken to school the next day and the police were called, i gave a statement and the guy was questioned, he said yes he did it, and that he would do it again, the police then spoke with my mum because i was only 13 at the time and she said that she didnt want a fuss made (because his wife was dieing) and all charges were dropped, my point it that i dont want to make the guy suffer, he is dead now and he suffered enough when he was dieing, (he died slowly and nastly) i want to make my mum suffer for not pressing charges and not moveing away because we lived next door to him, she wouldnt even talk to me about it she just pushed me away after that, so my mum is the person that should suffer.

well yes i agree your mum wasnt very helpfull and supportive and thats what people who go through that kinda thing need.
and im glad he sufferd cause he is a jerk and i think your mum was wrong for not doing anything about it because he could easily do it again if not to you to some other poor child. your mum has just as many issues as he has no offence but that is just as disgusting!

can i ask did it stop afterwards and where there rumors of him doing it to anyone else?
did he still come over what was it like after he got caught?

it did stop after i said somthing, and after he died his grand daughter said that he abused her, but yes he kept coming over and it was exceedingly un comfortable, and i for a long time wanted to die, i didnt want to be in the same room has him and my mum made me go shopping for him, peopel may say "why didnt i refuse" well because if i did i wouldve got beaten badly, i always remember the day he died, because i was living away from home and my mum called me to say that "i have some really bad news for you so and so has died, and i cried because it was like being free from all the pain i had suffered. Me and my mum dont speak anymore because of this issue, and i hate her more than anything else right now i guess you can never forget what happened but you learn to live with it and cope any way you can.

Lucifers Angel:

tyco:

Lucifers Angel:

tyco:

Chandramukhi.:

Also, were you molested? Because if you were, then my argument is dead. To the victims, it probably wouldn't matter if the offender were a fairy angel who was having a bad day. They'd want to see him suffer.

But even that can't be completely trusted as a judgement because of course you'd want to see someone suffer when they made you suffer. Justice is not vengeance.

i am adopted.. before i was adopted i went into a few horrible mistake carehomes.
one of which with a child molester... i was only 2 so if i was molesterd then i dont think i would even know really.. but there is no evidence of it, but we think my sister was molesterd at some point even if none of us where the thought ofit disgusts me, and i would feel the same whatever to be honest.

i was adopted cause my parents where not the nicest of people either but not molesters.

and no no argument is dead unless you make it stick by your morals and i will stick by mine.. but we have to realise neither is wrong really it just depends on who looks at it.

i was molested over a few years, it was a regular thing, i came to realise that, that was my lot in life (For a while at least) but then i realised that it was wrong and i shouldn't be going through that (no one should), he was a friend of the family's, i was at a friends house one night and we were watching that child line programme that was on many years ago, and i just said to my friend that i was being abused, she then went to see her mum and told her, i was then taken to school the next day and the police were called, i gave a statement and the guy was questioned, he said yes he did it, and that he would do it again, the police then spoke with my mum because i was only 13 at the time and she said that she didnt want a fuss made (because his wife was dieing) and all charges were dropped, my point it that i dont want to make the guy suffer, he is dead now and he suffered enough when he was dieing, (he died slowly and nastly) i want to make my mum suffer for not pressing charges and not moveing away because we lived next door to him, she wouldnt even talk to me about it she just pushed me away after that, so my mum is the person that should suffer.

well yes i agree your mum wasnt very helpfull and supportive and thats what people who go through that kinda thing need.
and im glad he sufferd cause he is a jerk and i think your mum was wrong for not doing anything about it because he could easily do it again if not to you to some other poor child. your mum has just as many issues as he has no offence but that is just as disgusting!

can i ask did it stop afterwards and where there rumors of him doing it to anyone else?
did he still come over what was it like after he got caught?

it did stop after i said somthing, and after he died his grand daughter said that he abused her, but yes he kept coming over and it was exceedingly un comfortable, and i for a long time wanted to die, i didnt want to be in the same room has him and my mum made me go shopping for him, peopel may say "why didnt i refuse" well because if i did i wouldve got beaten badly, i always remember the day he died, because i was living away from home and my mum called me to say that "i have some really bad news for you so and so has died, and i cried because it was like being free from all the pain i had suffered. Me and my mum dont speak anymore because of this issue, and i hate her more than anything else right now i guess you can never forget what happened but you learn to live with it and cope any way you can.

that was quite painfull to read and brought back a lot of bad memories.. although i dont think i was molesterd i was abused as a child in many other ways.
and of corse you cant forget and i know copeing can be sooooo hard at times and i also have felt like just dieing thinking it will be the best for everyone..
since then i have known somone who has commit suicide and i could never forgive that peron either for what they put me and everyone else through emotionally.. yea and i couldnt put anyone through that.

i know it sounds like im not a very forgiving person.. and i am i really am but there are some things you just cant forgive people for cause it scars you forever and its hard to live with that.

im glad that your copeing and out of that environment now.

Oh my god, Lucifer's Angel (what's your name, anyway?). That's just terrible. That really is terrible. And it just sucks that that happens in a world that's supposedly "just and advanced" and all that jazz.

And I don't mean to offend you in any way, but I'd really like to know: how would you have reacted if you knew that he was mentally retarded/unstable?

K, so, Lucifer's Angel PMed me a while back regarding this and told me that she didn't know how she would have felt if her abuser was mentally retarded.

But maybe it would have been easier for her to tell people if he was. Or maybe no one would have believed her, depending on what kind of handicap it was. But I still maintain my point, someone with an exceptionally low IQ (60 or below) or someone who has no idea what he/she is doing half the time due to mental illness just can't be held responsible for their actions. Not completely, anyway. They should be given help and treatment, rediagnosed after their treatment is complete and then let back out. If they persist in molesting even after this, then they should be checked up again. Chances are, they'll be all "normal" by this time and that's when they can be responsible. When they know what they're doing.

lyrical_mess:

K, so, Lucifer's Angel PMed me a while back regarding this and told me that she didn't know how she would have felt if her abuser was mentally retarded.

But maybe it would have been easier for her to tell people if he was. Or maybe no one would have believed her, depending on what kind of handicap it was. But I still maintain my point, someone with an exceptionally low IQ (60 or below) or someone who has no idea what he/she is doing half the time due to mental illness just can't be held responsible for their actions. Not completely, anyway. They should be given help and treatment, rediagnosed after their treatment is complete and then let back out. If they persist in molesting even after this, then they should be checked up again. Chances are, they'll be all "normal" by this time and that's when they can be responsible. When they know what they're doing.

a low IQ has nothing to do with a retardation.
and also why would you let them back out?.. why give them the chance to do it again?.. thats sickening!
lucifers also PMed me and i think her case was horrible.
what gets me is.. these people have been prooved time and time again that they go into care and then come out and do the same thing?.. they shouldnt be let out in the first place they shouldnt get the chance... should they?
i mean seriously they do it once and then there given the chance to have another go.. its very sad why would you let them do that?

as you know i was in a care home with a pedo and i think its sickening that they made the mistake of letting him work with little kids.
he later killed himself and i have mixed feelings about that, he should die so he cant do anything to kids again and on the otherhand i want him to suffer as much as possible first. dieing was the easy way out for him.

so yea thats my take on things i think there scum.. mentally retarded people do know what there doing as well.. if they didnt they would be too retarded to even be able to molest.
as i said my sister has a slight retardation and she can controll herself.

"Too retarded to molest" ? I'm not talking about a slight retardation. I'm talking about deranged psychos. And a low IQ does count as mental retardation. I think the cut off to be considered for mental retardation is like 70 or 80.

And there's something that makes us human: forgiving. I mean, I don't think June has forgiven her mother for taking no action or her abuser for treating her that way. But society gives people second chances. A chance to prove yourself.

There are people that are so horribly screwed up that they can't ever be let out of whatever mental facility they're in. But what about the people that show signs of overcoming their illness? Shouldn't they be given a second chance? You might say something about "Life doesn't give second chances". And that may be true. But you gotta have hope, man.

Also, basing the future/present on the past is a horrible mistake. Just because people have done it before doesn't mean people will always do it. Where is your humanity? Suppose someone tried to commit suicide and failed. Would you have them locked up forever and say that they'd only try again if you let them out?

And suppose the molester is deranged, why not put him permanently in a high security mental institution? Why does he have to be put in a dark, dank cell?

lyrical_mess:

"Too retarded to molest" ? I'm not talking about a slight retardation. I'm talking about deranged psychos. And a low IQ does count as mental retardation. I think the cut off to be considered for mental retardation is like 70 or 80.

And there's something that makes us human: forgiving. I mean, I don't think June has forgiven her mother for taking no action or her abuser for treating her that way. But society gives people second chances. A chance to prove yourself.

There are people that are so horribly screwed up that they can't ever be let out of whatever mental facility they're in. But what about the people that show signs of overcoming their illness? Shouldn't they be given a second chance? You might say something about "Life doesn't give second chances". And that may be true. But you gotta have hope, man.

Also, basing the future/present on the past is a horrible mistake. Just because people have done it before doesn't mean people will always do it. Where is your humanity? Suppose someone tried to commit suicide and failed. Would you have them locked up forever and say that they'd only try again if you let them out?

And suppose the molester is deranged, why not put him permanently in a high security mental institution? Why does he have to be put in a dark, dank cell?

okay perminantly in an instatute is a start but they then always have the hope of comming out and i think they should be locked up so they suffer!


when you grows up and has a child of her own she will feel differently because children should always be protected and there is no valid excuse for hurting a child..... hurting children should be punished no matter what

the thing that gets me is that you think these people should just go to a mental instatute and then be let out
erm... no. why give them a chance to do it again! do you know what i mean
once a child molester always a child molester

it takes a certain amount of insanity for people to be cold blooded killers like if they were robbing a place and shot the owner........ now would they say oh you must be mental so we will try to help you instead of punish you? ......no they go to prison.... why should child molesters get different treatment???????????

well when it comes down to it then any crime could be blamed on a sort of insanity and i believe its true that it takes a sort of mental problem to do wrong things.... but it does not excuse an adult from making the wrong choices

its more horrible than anything to hurt a child who cannot defend itself

and they dont deserve the care to try and stop it thats playing into there hands yes sir ill be good im cured now.. how many times have we heard that how many times have these people been let out and done the same thing over and over

some molester here in the uk got help
and was "cured"
and then he got a job in a primary school
not only did he start molesting again but he also killed one of the poor girls

i have been through a lot of emotional scars from my past too.. and i dont really wanna talk about it to you but i think its disgusting and i am a forgiving person
but somethings you have to live for, for the rest of your life! and they cant be forgiven!...

i think anyone who is an adult has to be responsible for their actions and there is consequences for what we do wrong weather small or big offense.... i mean if i dont pay my water bill it will be my fault theres no water here....... and does it count that mentally i might be forgetful? no...... well when people commit crimes that hurt people there should be harsh punishment for it

if everyone could use excuses to get away with things then where would the world be?
there would be no justice ....... people would be killing and raping in the streets

at some point you asked me where my sense of humanity is........ well mine seems pretty apparent but yours i cant see since you seems to think it acceptable to risk another child being hurt in the name of giving some scumbag 'a chance'

Especially when the statistics show is is rare beyond rare that a pedophile can be rehabilatated.

They will simply repeat offend.

I think child molestors ought to be shot.

spill_no_sick:

what should we do to those who molest little kids?
should we give them harsher sentences? should they be locked up for life? should they get serious help?

well?

Molesting kids, especially little kids is sick in the head. I think they should get help......... and after that go to jail!