Holocaust: Who is Responsible?

[ fallen angel ]:

I hope I'm not, like, offending anyone by talking about this subject, but we're studying the Holocaust and school, and my teacher was talking about who was responsible for the Holocaust. There was 10 choices, I think. It got me thinking, and I was wondering, what order would you put the 10 choices in, from least responsible to most responsible, and why? The choices were:

1. Residents of towns near concentration camps who knew about them but did nothing to stop them
2. Minor Nazi Soldiers
3. Hitler
4. People who voted for Hitler and the Nazi Party to revitalize their morally and economically depressed country
5. The Jews who did not try to escape
6. Top SS officers who designed and executed the 'Final Solution' for Hitler
7. Non-Jewish Europeans who turned against their Jewish friends and citizens, fearing they'd be imprisioned as Jewish sympathizers
8.Leaders of the Allied countries who had evidence of the Holocaust but refused to get involved or voice opposition
9. Churches of all denominations who remained silent and refused to intevene

aaaannnnddd

10. The Jewish God

So, what do you think?

...

Oookay.

I am going to try and stay and calm as possible, but that just got my blood boiling beyond the imaginable. BEYOND the imaginable.

Just so you know...

I am a Jew. A religious observant one at that. I've been told by Catholics to my face that I deserved to die in the Holocaust. Let's take apart a few of your assumptions, because I've been learning about the Holocaust ever since I was, I don't know, 6?

1. Residents of towns near concentration camps who knew about them but did nothing to stop them- Okay. Would you stand up to the largest power on the planet when you could get shot? The people in the towns were generally Christians who were afraid. However, I'm afraid you don't take account of the Christians who DID house Jews who escaped the Ghettos.

4. People who voted for Hitler and the Nazi Party to revitalize their morally and economically depressed country- You have got your facts wrong. The whole reason Hitler came in power was due to the depression that occured before hand. Hitler convinced everyone that the depression would end. These people were misled, all of Europe was misled. You cannot judge everyone based off of this, Hitler was like God to this people.

5. The Jews who did not try to escape- ...Okay. You know what? That just disgusted me completely and utterly. Do you realize they HAD no escape? The Nazis made Jews wear Jewish stars. They had EVERY birth certificate. If they saw that at least one grandparent was Jewish, you were a goner. Dead. They couldn't escape. But the partisans did, most from Auchwitz.

9. Churches of all denominations who remained silent and refused to intevene- Again, the churches wouldn't have joined against it anyways, the churches never do.

10. The Jewish God-Oh please. Don't go blaming my God. Did the Christians blame Jesus when hurricane Katrina struck? I think not. The Holocaust happened for a reason. I'm not saying that 6 million innocent souls deserved to be slaughtered, but God didn't put this upon us to be completely eradicated. Did you ever think of it in the way that God SAVED us? The fact we survived the Holocaust is clearly an act of God, though also the US and British armies.


Also, the Holocaust only points to Hitler. It's only Hitler, he practically brainwashed millions of people, since he's amazing at speaking. To say he wasn't a good leader is nonsensical.

...

*is done* o_O

XxBillieOwnsXx:

...

Oookay.

I am going to try and stay and calm as possible, but that just got my blood boiling beyond the imaginable. BEYOND the imaginable.

Just so you know...

I am a Jew. A religious observant one at that. I've been told by Catholics to my face that I deserved to die in the Holocaust. Let's take apart a few of your assumptions, because I've been learning about the Holocaust ever since I was, I don't know, 6?

1. Residents of towns near concentration camps who knew about them but did nothing to stop them- Okay. Would you stand up to the largest power on the planet when you could get shot? The people in the towns were generally Christians who were afraid. However, I'm afraid you don't take account of the Christians who DID house Jews who escaped the Ghettos.

4. People who voted for Hitler and the Nazi Party to revitalize their morally and economically depressed country- You have got your facts wrong. The whole reason Hitler came in power was due to the depression that occured before hand. Hitler convinced everyone that the depression would end. These people were misled, all of Europe was misled. You cannot judge everyone based off of this, Hitler was like God to this people.

5. The Jews who did not try to escape- ...Okay. You know what? That just disgusted me completely and utterly. Do you realize they HAD no escape? The Nazis made Jews wear Jewish stars. They had EVERY birth certificate. If they saw that at least one grandparent was Jewish, you were a goner. Dead. They couldn't escape. But the partisans did, most from Auchwitz.

9. Churches of all denominations who remained silent and refused to intevene- Again, the churches wouldn't have joined against it anyways, the churches never do.

10. The Jewish God-Oh please. Don't go blaming my God. Did the Christians blame Jesus when hurricane Katrina struck? I think not. The Holocaust happened for a reason. I'm not saying that 6 million innocent souls deserved to be slaughtered, but God didn't put this upon us to be completely eradicated. Did you ever think of it in the way that God SAVED us? The fact we survived the Holocaust is clearly an act of God, though also the US and British armies.


Also, the Holocaust only points to Hitler. It's only Hitler, he practically brainwashed millions of people.

...

*is done* o_O

Don't go shouting at her...she was simply reiterating.

So quit with all the 'You got the facts wrong', 'You cannot' and 'You don't take into account'.

To conclude, don't blame Hitler. That is very incorrect. If you need to know why, go look up one of NeoSteph's posts.

Bloodraine:

XxBillieOwnsXx:

...

Oookay.

I am going to try and stay and calm as possible, but that just got my blood boiling beyond the imaginable. BEYOND the imaginable.

Just so you know...

I am a Jew. A religious observant one at that. I've been told by Catholics to my face that I deserved to die in the Holocaust. Let's take apart a few of your assumptions, because I've been learning about the Holocaust ever since I was, I don't know, 6?

1. Residents of towns near concentration camps who knew about them but did nothing to stop them- Okay. Would you stand up to the largest power on the planet when you could get shot? The people in the towns were generally Christians who were afraid. However, I'm afraid you don't take account of the Christians who DID house Jews who escaped the Ghettos.

4. People who voted for Hitler and the Nazi Party to revitalize their morally and economically depressed country- You have got your facts wrong. The whole reason Hitler came in power was due to the depression that occured before hand. Hitler convinced everyone that the depression would end. These people were misled, all of Europe was misled. You cannot judge everyone based off of this, Hitler was like God to this people.

5. The Jews who did not try to escape- ...Okay. You know what? That just disgusted me completely and utterly. Do you realize they HAD no escape? The Nazis made Jews wear Jewish stars. They had EVERY birth certificate. If they saw that at least one grandparent was Jewish, you were a goner. Dead. They couldn't escape. But the partisans did, most from Auchwitz.

9. Churches of all denominations who remained silent and refused to intevene- Again, the churches wouldn't have joined against it anyways, the churches never do.

10. The Jewish God-Oh please. Don't go blaming my God. Did the Christians blame Jesus when hurricane Katrina struck? I think not. The Holocaust happened for a reason. I'm not saying that 6 million innocent souls deserved to be slaughtered, but God didn't put this upon us to be completely eradicated. Did you ever think of it in the way that God SAVED us? The fact we survived the Holocaust is clearly an act of God, though also the US and British armies.


Also, the Holocaust only points to Hitler. It's only Hitler, he practically brainwashed millions of people.

...

*is done* o_O

Don't go shouting at her...she was simply reiterating.

So quit with all your 'You got the facts wrong', 'You cannot' and 'You don't take into account'.

To conclude, don't blame Hitler. That is very incorrect. If you need to know why, go look up one of NeoSteph's posts.

Uhh no. I have friends whose grandparents were at Auschwitz. I'll do what I damn please, sorry.

I'm sorry if I seem bitchy but I think I have every fucking right to stand up for 6 million people who were butchered. 6 million people I am connected to.

Jews have always been discriminated against, but he was the one who blamed the Jews at first in the late 30's. He blamed the Jews for Germany's Economical problems, which sparked the flare again.

Jesus, I'll just convert to Islam, I'm sorry for living o_O

XxBillieOwnsXx:

Uhh no. I have friends whose grandparents were at Auschwitz. I'll do what I damn please, sorry.

I'm sorry if I seem bitchy but I think I have every fucking right to stand up for 6 million people who were butchered. 6 million people I am connected to.

Jews have always been discriminated against, but he was the one who blamed the Jews at first in the late 30's. He blamed the Jews for Germany's Economical problems, which sparked the flare again.

Jesus, I'll just convert to Islam, I'm sorry for living o_O

Then you should berate the person who wrote those statements in the first place...don't shoot the messenger. Fallen Angel was just provding substance for debate, nothing more. She does not deserve blame.

You really think it was Hitler who first blamed the jews in the 30's?. No. Everyone has been blaming the jews since the dawn of time, Hitler only on a wider scale.

XxBillieOwnsXx:

Bloodraine:

XxBillieOwnsXx:

...

Oookay.

I am going to try and stay and calm as possible, but that just got my blood boiling beyond the imaginable. BEYOND the imaginable.

Just so you know...

I am a Jew. A religious observant one at that. I've been told by Catholics to my face that I deserved to die in the Holocaust. Let's take apart a few of your assumptions, because I've been learning about the Holocaust ever since I was, I don't know, 6?

1. Residents of towns near concentration camps who knew about them but did nothing to stop them- Okay. Would you stand up to the largest power on the planet when you could get shot? The people in the towns were generally Christians who were afraid. However, I'm afraid you don't take account of the Christians who DID house Jews who escaped the Ghettos.

4. People who voted for Hitler and the Nazi Party to revitalize their morally and economically depressed country- You have got your facts wrong. The whole reason Hitler came in power was due to the depression that occured before hand. Hitler convinced everyone that the depression would end. These people were misled, all of Europe was misled. You cannot judge everyone based off of this, Hitler was like God to this people.

5. The Jews who did not try to escape- ...Okay. You know what? That just disgusted me completely and utterly. Do you realize they HAD no escape? The Nazis made Jews wear Jewish stars. They had EVERY birth certificate. If they saw that at least one grandparent was Jewish, you were a goner. Dead. They couldn't escape. But the partisans did, most from Auchwitz.

9. Churches of all denominations who remained silent and refused to intevene- Again, the churches wouldn't have joined against it anyways, the churches never do.

10. The Jewish God-Oh please. Don't go blaming my God. Did the Christians blame Jesus when hurricane Katrina struck? I think not. The Holocaust happened for a reason. I'm not saying that 6 million innocent souls deserved to be slaughtered, but God didn't put this upon us to be completely eradicated. Did you ever think of it in the way that God SAVED us? The fact we survived the Holocaust is clearly an act of God, though also the US and British armies.


Also, the Holocaust only points to Hitler. It's only Hitler, he practically brainwashed millions of people.

...

*is done* o_O

Don't go shouting at her...she was simply reiterating.

So quit with all your 'You got the facts wrong', 'You cannot' and 'You don't take into account'.

To conclude, don't blame Hitler. That is very incorrect. If you need to know why, go look up one of NeoSteph's posts.

Uhh no. I have friends whose grandparents were at Auschwitz. I'll do what I damn please, sorry.

I'm sorry if I seem bitchy but I think I have every fucking right to stand up for 6 million people who were butchered. 6 million people I am connected to.

Jews have always been discriminated against, but he was the one who blamed the Jews at first in the late 30's. He blamed the Jews for Germany's Economical problems, which sparked the flare again.

Jesus, I'll just convert to Islam, I'm sorry for living o_O

Actually The Nazi Party started in the late twenties. propaganda against jews started as early as 1932, for someone who seems very opinionated about these events you don't seem to know the extent of what it was about.

Before you get yourself in a state by being emotional i suggest you get your facts right, especially when you seem to be attacking someone who was only replaying what she had been told.

I posted many times in this thread about how you can't solely hold Hitler responsible, if you want to ignore that, fine but don't continue down the track of putting all your apples in one cart.

Thankyou meg for mentioning my responces in your post.

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

NeoSteph:

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

think about it man, who do you think turned hitler against the jews?

Spirit Of '77:

NeoSteph:

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

think about it man, who do you think turned hitler against the jews?

well seeing as Hitler isn't a christian I highly doubt it had anything to do with his faith. What turned him against the jews was the high level of propagand in Venus.

NeoSteph:

Spirit Of '77:

NeoSteph:

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

think about it man, who do you think turned hitler against the jews?

well seeing as Hitler isn't a christian I highly doubt it had anything to do with his faith. What turned him against the jews was the high level of propagand in Venus.

hahaha

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

Nah, I blame the satanists, anarchists[sp] ......................wutev4

i blame society in general

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

That wasn't actually funny.

Don't take up a career in stand up, will you?

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

Sure.
You been living on Mars or something?

Everyone on that list minus the Jewish people themselfs # 4 and God.
I count 4 becuse
at the time Hitler rose to power the Germans were living in poverty,
and hitler seemed like an anwer to get out of that.
they were not thing about 15/20 years down the road.
the Jews becuse it's not thier fault.
God becuse..well, depens on how you look at it.

All the SS people, citizens, and Leaders Had the power to stop it-and they didn't.
even though Pius XII did help out some Jews and condemed Nazism.
it still went on.
bad place to insert this but we should all rember this
We're all the same.....We feel the same pain.

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

Kinda.. yes we/they are.
In The Crusades and the Inquisition, Jewish people were killed at the hands of Christians.
there was great Anti-semitism on the part of Christians for 100's of years becuse they thought/belived that the Jews "killed Christ."
although in the Catholic Nicene Creed, which is the outline of all Christian belifes,(made in the 300's AD)
it says that Jesus "was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; suffered, and was buried."
And they also seem(ed) to forget that Jesus was a Jew. and that the Frist Christians were Jewish.
that's why I dont go to Church much anymore.

+Messiahofthe7-11+:

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

Kinda.. yes we/they are.
In The Crusades and the Inquisition, Jewish people were killed at the hands of Christians.
there was great Anti-semitism on the part of Christians for 100's of years becuse they thought/belived that the Jews "killed Christ."
although in the Catholic Nicene Creed, which is the outline of all Christian belifes,(made in the 300's AD)
it says that Jesus "was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; suffered, and was buried."
And they also seem(ed) to forget that Jesus was a Jew. and that the Frist Christians were Jewish.
that's why I dont go to Church much anymore.

That has little to do with the Holocaust.

Christians had nothing to do with the Holocaust.

I mean, some Christians might hate the Jews, but they damn well aren't the only ones, by a long way. Go by that logic and you could say every religion was 'kinda' to blame.

Bloodraine:

+Messiahofthe7-11+:

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

Kinda.. yes we/they are.
In The Crusades and the Inquisition, Jewish people were killed at the hands of Christians.
there was great Anti-semitism on the part of Christians for 100's of years becuse they thought/belived that the Jews "killed Christ."
although in the Catholic Nicene Creed, which is the outline of all Christian belifes,(made in the 300's AD)
it says that Jesus "was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; suffered, and was buried."
And they also seem(ed) to forget that Jesus was a Jew. and that the Frist Christians were Jewish.
that's why I dont go to Church much anymore.

That has little to do with the Holocaust.

Christians had nothing to do with the Holocaust.

I mean, some Christians might hate the Jews, but they damn well aren't the only ones, by a long way. Go by that logic and you could say every religion was 'kinda' to blame.

True
But Christian Anti-semitism WAS the one of the driveing forces of the Holocaust, you can't deny that.

+Messiahofthe7-11+:

True
But Christian Anti-semitism WAS the one of the driveing forces of the Holocaust, you can't deny that.

Why?

+Messiahofthe7-11+:

Bloodraine:

+Messiahofthe7-11+:

Spirit Of '77:

THE CHRISTIANS ARE TO BLAME!!!

Kinda.. yes we/they are.
In The Crusades and the Inquisition, Jewish people were killed at the hands of Christians.
there was great Anti-semitism on the part of Christians for 100's of years becuse they thought/belived that the Jews "killed Christ."
although in the Catholic Nicene Creed, which is the outline of all Christian belifes,(made in the 300's AD)
it says that Jesus "was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate; suffered, and was buried."
And they also seem(ed) to forget that Jesus was a Jew. and that the Frist Christians were Jewish.
that's why I dont go to Church much anymore.

That has little to do with the Holocaust.

Christians had nothing to do with the Holocaust.

I mean, some Christians might hate the Jews, but they damn well aren't the only ones, by a long way. Go by that logic and you could say every religion was 'kinda' to blame.

True
But Christian Anti-semitism WAS the one of the driveing forces of the Holocaust, you can't deny that.

Christians were persecuted too. Just like Poles and Czechs and Jews and Gypsies and Homosexuals and the mentally handicapped.